Episode 202: How to Engage Mindfully and Intentionally with Screens and Technology with Autumn McKay
/Welcome to another episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast. Today, I am joined by Autumn McKay, a former teacher and mother of three. She shares her journey balancing motherhood, family activities, and minimizing screen time for her children. Drawing from her background in Early Childhood Education, Autumn discusses practical ways to engage kids in screen-free, enriching activities.
Here are some of the topics we covered in this episode:
The impact of screen time on both children’s behavior and parents’ attention
Shared experience of parents navigating new technology and its effects on family dynamics
Identifying signals that indicate a need for self-reflection and reevaluation of one’s behavior or habits
Finding balance in managing screen time and responsibilities while being a positive role model for children
Technology's benefits and concerns regarding children's screen use and their ability to connect with peers culturally.
Reflecting on video game experiences and the benefits of reduced screen time
Balancing screen time with outdoor play for diverse childhood experiences
Intentional technology use and fostering creativity when screen time limits
Balancing screen time with hands-on activities to foster family connection
To learn more about Autumn McKay, visit her website at BestMomIdeas.com, Facebook @bestmomideas, and on Instagram @bestmomideas.
Tune in for Autumn’s insights on fostering intentional family interactions without screens and discover practical ways to create a balanced home environment.
I would love to hear from you! If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the podcast or any takeaways or wins you’d like to share you can leave me a message here: https://www.speakpipe.com/laurafroyenphd
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen. And on this week's episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we are continuing our conversation around how to engage mindfully and intentionally with screens and technology with our kiddos. To help me with this aspect of our conversation, I am bringing in Autumn McKay. She has developed activity guides for kids and has been on her own journey with releasing some of her usage of screens, taking a look at her own use of technology and how she's modeling that for her kids. And bringing more I guess probably less, less tech, less screen into her family's life. And so we're gonna be talking about this Autumn. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Autumn: Yeah, thanks for having me. So like you said, I'm Autumn. Okay. And I am a wife. We've been married for 14 years and I'm a mom. I have three biological children, ages 10, 8 and 6. And then we also are foster parents. And so I will have a teaching background. I started out in the classroom and then when we had children, I became a stay at home mom. And,my husband encouraged me to take the activities that my children and I were doing together and to share them with other moms and write books, to share those activities.
Laura: I'm sorry, that must have felt really good to have your partner see you and validate you in that way.
Autumn: Yeah. So, yes, he was, he was nudging me and I was reluctant but he was very encouraging and supportive. And so, yes, he encouraged me and, yeah, I eventually did it.
Laura: That's really great. I, you know, so often all that we do as parents, the labor that goes into it, doesn't get seen. And so to be seen in that way by your partner, probably I can imagine, felt very, very good.
Autumn: Yes, it was. And he's, he's been like my rock the whole, the whole journey.
Laura: That's wonderful. Okay. Sorry, I interrupted you. Keep going.
Autumn: No. No, you're good. I'm good. I'm done.
Laura: Okay. Well, so I wanted to, I guess it sounds to me like you've got kind of a personal story around when you started to realize that your own screen habits were starting to impact your life with your kids, your kids behavior. And I'm curious if you'll tell us a little bit of your story.
Autumn: Yeah. So my story is kind of two fold. So we started so my first child was born in 2013. So like right at the cusp of when all the ipads and everything were coming out. And so like a lot of companies were pushing like they need to be on these educational games as how they'll learn and all these things. So we introduced that to our oldest. He was probably like right under two. And so we gave him educational games of learning the ABC'S and all these things and he wasn't on them like all the time, but every now and then we would let him play a game. But then we saw when we said alright time's up, it was just like a complete meltdown, tears and tantrums and we're like, whoa, like what is going on here. So we, we like, took a break from that and just like, kind of tried to figure out why the meltdowns if that was normal or what was going on. And we read a few books and we kind of discovered that um technology like screens, especially for little, little ones can be addicting. And so we, we like, redirected our attention from screens to hands on activities and being intentional with our playtime and things like that.
But so that was one part of why we try to steer, steer away from screens and more intentional play. And then the second part was for ourselves. Like us, we started to notice that we were giving more focus to our phones and then to our kids and our kids were like, kind of fighting for our attention over our phones. So there were behaviors that they were trying to get our attention and that normally they wouldn't have because they weren't fighting for our attention basically. And so, yeah, we had to take a look at ourselves and realize like, are we being a good model? Like, because, because they're trying to get our attention over our phones and they're, they're starting to think that our phones are more important than them.
Laura: And so, yeah, which of course is the last thing any of us want to do. So, you know, it's interesting. So I think that some of these things can be a little hard for parents to hear because we know it, we know it, we know what we're doing, you know. I was talking to my daughter who's home sick from school today. She's 11 and often I talk about the interviews that I'm going to have. They're not super interested but like, it's one way to talk about the work that I do and everything. But we were, we were, I was talking about this interview. And she was like, well, like, I think parents, you know, grown ups usually are not very good models. They want to, they use screens way more than they want their kids to be using screens. And I was like, oh, you're right. You know. You know. You know, and, and she's, I mean, just to even have the eloquence to be able to say, like you're not modeling, like what you see, it's a kind of a do, as I say, not as I do sort of thing. I was like man, 11 year olds dropping true moms, but it's so true, right?
Autumn: It is.
Laura: It is. But I mean, I think, I think I want to offer as a little compassion too. I'm thinking about it. So you and I got married the same year, right? So I've been married 14 years almost too and our kids are the same age and I, I think we don't acknowledge that we were learning to do something new around this piece at the same time, this new technology was available, right? And so, and we didn't know how to use it either, right? So like it was new and you know, the it's designed, many of these things are intentionally designed to capture our attention, right? And the other thing too is that we're social learners, right? So human beings are programmed to watch what other human beings are doing in order to learn what's important to our culture. What's important, you know, what skills do we need to have to survive. And so when we have these little babies who are watching us all the time on our phones, they learn very quickly that these phones, these devices are important to the adults in their environment. And so then they need to figure them out and figure out what to do with them, you know. And so I, I love that we're talking a little bit about taking a look at ourselves first, but it's hard too because just like they can be, you know, almost have that addictive quality for kids. They have that for us. How did you kind of change things for yourself? You and your husband.
Autumn: So we, we kind of used our phones as an excuse to like, well, I need to know the time or I need it for an alarm to wake me up in the morning. So we kind of took those excuses away. So we got wristwatches, we got a wall, a clock for our wall in our living room. So we wouldn't need to like, say, well, we need to know what time it is. And then we got just the old fashioned alarm clock that you hit the snooze button for, in our, in our room. And then we like, we don't have phones in our room when we sleep. And then we took all of the social media off of our phones because that's like the pull towards phones. Especially for me.
Laura: Especially having a business where you're sharing your work. I mean, I resonate with that so much. My husband never had social media. He, I think he tried Facebook for like two months and just played that farming game. That was for a while. Do you remember that? He was like, this is stupid and he deleted it, you know. So, I mean, brilliant man for never having it, but I've been social media free for a year, like going on a year, but it is such a draw, especially when it's part of your work.
Autumn: Yeah. So and then we kind of just try to make our phones as dumb as we can basically. So it's not attractive and trying to pull us in. So we,, there's this new app, it's called Blank Space where it takes your apps and kind of hides them so they can't. Yeah. And so only the important things that you want are like messages and camera and photos and like Google Maps or whatever it is just on the home screen. And there, it's just words, it's not even apps and so.
Laura: Oh really? Yeah, because I, I already like when I was going through my, like the, you know, dumbing down my phone, right? Like, so trying as hard as I could to get things off and move them. I, hid everything like four, you know, four swipes in the back and, you know, I mean, I tried my best to hide everything but like you, there's also a search bar. So if you want to. Right. Okay, what else did you guys do on your own?
Autumn: We made sure like, no phones, no devices at the dinner table. Like that's a sacred spot where you can connect with each other and build relationships and so like no phones at the dinner table. And even if, if you need to silence it that way, if you're getting work calls or whatever, that, that won't interrupt dinner and you won't be drawn away. Let's see, what else did we do? We do not disturb, set up at night. That way while we're sleeping, we won't even though they're, they're not in our room, we won't hear them if they go off. Let's see, we get weekly reports of what apps we are using. Yeah, just kind of like monitoring our screen usage, I guess.
Laura: How long, like how long has it been since you've made this change?
Autumn: Oh let's see, probably five years. So we did not do all of these things at one time.
Laura: So we've been slowly adding these things. Okay. So listeners, my beloved community, do you hear what she's saying? That you don't have to go and do all of these things at once. Right? And you don't have to go and do all of these things at all. You can try them and see what it's like. You can explore it with curiosity and compassion for yourself and a little bit of gentleness and kind of just add things in at one, you know, one step at a time. Right.
Autumn: Yeah. So we started with like, no phones at dinner and then, and then we slowly like, all right, let's get the family room clock on the wall and then over time we're like, all right, no phones in our room while we sleep. And yeah, so it's been like a five year process and, and it's still like every now and then we'll have to check ourselves because it, it will like, pull us back in.
Laura: How do you know, like, what are the, like, what are the signals that you need to, like, re-evaluate and check in with yourself?
Autumn: Usually if we're, if we're constantly, like, busy with work, we have our phones close by and then the kids will be like, hey, they, they start fighting for our attention again. They're like, can you come do this and, and we're like, well, hold on and we're like trying to finish an email or something like that and we're like, wait, what's more important here? Like your child or this work email, you're always gonna have the work email, like they're always going to come unfortunately. But yes, but how long are you going to get to play Legos with your kids or go help them read a story.
Laura: And there is room for balance, right? So if it is a time sensitive email, but that also has value to the kids, right? So if we are most of the time not putting them off when we do, when we say actually, I really have to finish this email, they know we mean it, they know that it actually is something that's important, you know. Yeah. Okay, so I love this idea of being a good kind of screen time role model for our kiddos. I'm curious about what those, so you were talking about those gradual changes that you made for yourself. Were there any gradual changes you made in the rest of the family?
Autumn: So my husband and I kind of made those changes together. So that we were kind of holding each other accountable. So that really helped also to be able to like make sure that we were following through and that we had someone to be like, hey, are you, are you getting sucked back in? Yeah. So that really helped and then for as far as the kids are when our oldest was having the meltdowns when he was like, right at two, we just said, like, no, no phones, no educational games, like, on phones for any of them. But then when they started school we did start to introduce computer time. So it's like a desktop. So it's not something that they can, like, carry around with them and kind of sneak extra time, you know. Yeah. Or, like, ask for it at a restaurant or something like that. It's in one place so they can only use it in that one space. And, so we know that they're a little older, we let them do typing games so they're learning good skills for typing. They do like the old school games, like math blasters.
Laura: Oh my God, math blasters. I just had like a throwback to 1990. I loved math blasters. Oh, my God, that still exists
Autumn: Well, we found the old, old CD’S and I downloaded them.
Laura: I mean, do computers even have CD drives anymore?
Autumn: They don't. So we had to figure out how to get it from the CD to the desktop.
Laura: But, oh, so your kids are kind of having a little bit of a nostalgic childhood.
Autumn: They have no idea that it's like games from our town.
Laura: Yeah. Okay. So I have a question for you. There's this piece of it. I, first of all, I just wanna for our listeners, I wanna, I just wanna make sure we all know that like, thank God we have technology, right? So it's like, thank God we have these things so that if we are all flying, you know, and are trapped on an airplane for three hours that we have a movie that kids can watch or something, you know, like thank goodness those things are there for us. So there I want to just make clear that Autumn and I are not suggesting you have to do any of these things right with your kids. And then, and there is no harm necessarily happening for, you know, for your kids. If they are you know, using screens more than our kids are, you know, my kid is using a screen right now to listen to an audiobook while we're having this conversation, right? So like just wanna be super 100% clear about that level, that piece of things, all families get to decide what's right for them, Autumn is sharing a change that has been right for her. One thing that I feel kind of curious about how you are going to navigate as your kids get older.
That I am starting to think about is as my kids get older and they start to realize they are not doing some of the things that their friends are doing. Like, are they not gonna get some of the generational cultural references? For example, my kids have never played minecraft. It's something that I'm open to them playing, but when I offer it to them, they are not interested in it at all. Versus their cousins who are similar ages are a little bit older. One is younger, they play Minecraft every day, you know, and are super into it and it's definitely a generational thing, you know. Are you at all, like, worried about that for your kids?
Autumn: So they have a core group of, like, friends and, we're good friends with like, the, the parents of those children and stuff. And so we all kind of share similar values towards, like, social media or video games or, phones, like for when our kids will get phones and things like that. So that's helpful being able to have like a core group that it's similar to, like, are my children aren't like the left out basically. They'll have friends that are in the same boat. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah. I think about it for my kids sometimes because they're the school that they go to only goes up until eighth grade. And then they'll be in, you know, well, we'll figure out what kind of educational setting they'll be when, when they get there. You know, and as a kid I was not allowed to play video games. I found out, like, later as an adult that my parents didn't actually care. I thought that they did not want me playing them ever, my sister secretly played them at her friends' houses but like, I would never, because I'm a rule follower. So it's interesting, like I have that experience of like, I don't know how to play Super Mario Brothers. I don't like, I don't, all of those iconic games from like that were not educational, like math blasters, I was allowed to play because math was a skill that I struggled with, you know, like all this I wasn't allowed to play. But as an adult, I don't necessarily know that I'm missing anything, you know. I mean, I maybe did miss a core eighties and nineties kid experience there.
But as an adult, the fact that I don't, I still would probably die really quickly while playing Super Mario Brothers. I don't even know, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't impact me and I don't feel like you missed out. I don't, I don't, you know, and as a, as a teenager, my, my friends didn't care, they would still play those games and I would watch them and that was fun, you know, but like, they didn't care that I wasn't interested or, didn't let myself do that apparently, like, it wasn't quite a rule, quite the rule that I thought it was my mom now is like, I didn't care. I just didn't want them in the house. But anyway, so I do feel curious about if you've noticed anything with your kids within your family, besides kind of maybe like not having any behavioral issues when screens are stopped. Have you noticed anything about the quality of your interactions that have changed or things that really delight you about having a lower tech house?
Autumn: Yeah, I was just telling my husband the other day like all the kids were outside playing and they had come up with this like super in depth game and they were explaining the rules to me about how like the Gopher goes around and does this thing. And I was, I was just explaining to my husband. I was like, they are so creative. Like, yeah, I think that not having the screens and not having the games tell you what to do in each thing allows their brains to use that creativity and come up with their own things instead of just being told what's happening. So yeah, I feel like their imagination and creativity has really expanded.
Laura: Yeah, I can under, I can totally see that too. You know, I have my kid in my neighborhood, we have kids who are friends with my kids but who are not necessarily the same, you know, doing the same thing screen wise. And it's lovely to see them out there playing together all, all of the neighbor kids and you know, there's one family in particular who just moved here. And they talk about how different their daughter is now because before there, there wasn't a lot where they live, there weren't a lot of good options for playing outside. And they didn't have any, she didn't have any peers who were doing that. If they were together, they were playing video games. And now she has these peers who live next door who are not doing those things and they love seeing her having just a broader skill set, you know, and I also love having my kids be exposed to another, you know, another type of childhood experience too. Right?
So I love that they can go over there and watch her play games, you know, too at the same time. Like, so it's, I think that that diversity is really important to have, it's good to have both, you know, both families. Like we need all, all people. I feel curious about, you know, if we are talking about families who are maybe looking for a little bit more balance, who are not ready to say goodbye to their, you know, weekly movie night or are not ready to say goodbye to their daily, you know, show in the afternoon while they're making dinner, you know. What can we do to help parents feel balanced and good about their choices when it comes to technology and screens?
Autumn: So I think it's like having a dinner show. Like I think that's fine like you're, you need that time to yourself to, to be able to get something done. And so, but I think as long as you set boundaries on that time, I think that would be good just because if you don't have boundaries, then you and your child are more likely to like let that stretch be on just cooking dinner time.
Laura: Like, yeah, I think it sounds too like you're saying that there needs to be some intention behind it too. Like really understanding what is the role that this tool is serving in our life. So we're going to engage in it with, you know, the same level of consciousness that we would with bringing any other tool into our lives, right? Not just use it because it's there but use it with an intention, right? Yeah. Oh I like that a lot. And they like, I think too like some of the other like, you know, when I talk with families about, you know, who feel like they're being negatively impacted by, you know, the the kind of the slippery slope that has the screens can become they the families really talk about like, okay, so then what else are we gonna do when we try to limit screens? My kids feel like they don't know what else to do and that, you know, that's a real struggle. Are there like, do you have suggestions for those families or for that, for that time period where kids have to kind of sit and struggle a little bit if we've maybe slid down a little bit more to the, the side that feels like too much for our family and we're tightening it back up. They struggle there, like, of course, kids are going to struggle because that's not what they're used to and they have to kind of exercise those creativity muscles. Do you have any support for parents? And not in those moments?
Autumn: So, you're kind of like their coach in that, that time. Like you have to coach them on how to come up with things to do when they're bored. I tell my one of my sons, he'll come to me, I'm bored and I'm like, I am not your entertainer. Like you need to go figure it out. But like you have to coach them before they get to that point of how to entertain themselves so that they're not constantly begging you for screen time.
Laura: So we can't just cold turkey them and then not give them support. Right.
Autumn: Exactly. So, like teaching them to go outside and play or offer them, go build a fort. You can offer to like, do an activity together or read a book together, like you just have to coach them through ideas and maybe give them like two choices and pick, they can pick one of those choices and then eventually they'll start coming up with things on their own. But yeah, you kind of just have to guide them towards that creativity side of their brain.
Laura: I think helping them learn how to sit in that. Like, not knowing and discomfort too can be really good. Right. And, like, narrating your own discomfort around those things. Like, I'm feeling bored, I don't really know what to do with myself, you know, like being able to say like, yeah, gosh, you know, so we're, as we're recording this summer is approaching for, for those of us who are in the northern hemisphere and we're facing school breaks, you know, and we're going to hear, I'm going to hear a lot of those, like there's nothing to do, you know, and it's so tempting to take those things on as our problem and as our problem to solve, you know, versus helping them sit in like, oh man, that sounds rough. What are you going to do about that?
Autumn: You know, it helps them be a problem solver like, yes.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, so like empathy and validation and then also not taking it on. My mom whenever I told her I was bored as a kid, would be like, well, I've got chores for you to do. That's what I say. Yes. You know. But even more than that sometimes when that happens for me, with my kids, I will invite them into whatever I'm doing. You know. So you can't find anything that you are. Well, I'm making a pie, you know, come and join me. I'd love to have you most of the time. They're like, no, thanks. I'll go find something, you know. But, sometimes they want to, you know, and then I get to share my grandma's pie crust recipe, you know, like, which is really nice. And I do think that there's more opportunities for that sort of thing when we do have some limits and boundaries around round screens. I do know though that for some families having open access to screens is really what works for their families. I feel curious if there are ways to incorporate some of the benefits of having maybe a more low tech experience into families that, for, you know, for a variety of reasons, it really works well for them to have their kids kind of have open access. Do you have any tips for those families too, to get some of the, you know, some of the, like the connection, the presence in the midst of maybe having a higher tech lifestyle?
Autumn: Yeah. So like family dinner time I think is a really good opportunity to focus on building those relationships. So I think like having no screens, being able to talk and communicate with a person, like, eye to eye, ask them about their day, discover their interest. I think being able to build relationships is a really beneficial skill. That, children and adults need forever.
Laura: Forever. Right. For sure. One other thing that I like to think about too is that sometimes there's opportunities for this where we're forced to, forced into it. Like, if we're going on a hike and there's no service where we're going then and we're all putting our phones away, you know, which is interesting and good for us, you know. So learning how to stretch those things without putting huge restrictions on the family as a whole, which it can be hard for, especially for a lot of our neurodivergent families can be really hard. But adding in things that are, that don't require screens. So, I mean, even just like when I'm baking, if there's a recipe, I know that I love, I print it out and, or put it in my recipe book so that I don't have my phone out looking at the recipe, you know what I mean?
Autumn: Yeah.
Laura: Or if I, or if I like, sometimes we'll experiment with recipes that we're cooking and there might be three that I'm interested in that are kind of similar. But I want to figure out my own. Printing those out so that I can have them all and we can compare the differences is really helpful. So like just finding ways to do this, like we're circling back to the beginning of our conversation. Right. But finding those ways to do things with our kids, with our families that don't involve those screens just as a bonus as an addition as, as opposed to, because I wanted, I just want to make sure, you know, because there, there are families for whom it will not work to, to go low tech. It just wasn't and, and they shouldn't, you know, and that's okay too. Right. But we can still have the kind of the added bonus of like low-tech moments with our families, you know.
Autumn: Yeah. Yeah. Just being intentional.
Laura: Yeah, I love it. Okay. Well, Autumn, I really enjoyed our conversation today. I want to make sure our listeners know where to find you, especially if they're struggling for things to do with their little ones and they decided to put the iPad away for the day.
Autumn: Yeah. So you can find me BestMomIdeas.com. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram under Best Mom Ideas and I do have a freebie for all your listeners that want to, to be intentional and maybe when they need a break from screens, it's called the Ultimate Mom Saver Activity Bundle. And it's six free activities from one of my books along with six free coloring pages from one of my husband's books.
Laura: Oh, fun. Okay. Well, thank you. Autumn. I really appreciate it.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!