Episode 203: Supporting Children Through the Grief of Pet Loss with Anne Marie Farage-Smith
/In this episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we’ll discuss an important and tender topic: supporting children through pet loss. I'm joined by grief expert and author Anne Marie Farage-Smith, a licensed mental health counselor, educator, and pet loss grief counselor. Anne Marie, who authored Healing Wisdom for Pet Loss, shares her expertise on navigating this emotional experience with children.
Here are the topics we covered:
Supporting children coping with pet loss and emotional reactions
How to help children prepare for a pet's death through open conversation
Explaining euthanasia to children by describing the decision, and process, and holding them with compassion
If you want to connect with Anne Marie, visit her websites counselingrochester.com, petlossroc.com.
Resources:
Tune in to listen and learn how you can support your children as they navigate this early experience of pet loss.
I would love to hear from you! If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the podcast or any takeaways or wins you’d like to share you can leave me a message here: https://www.speakpipe.com/laurafroyenphd
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen. And on this week's episode of the Balanced Parent podcast, we are going to be discussing how to support our children through the loss of a pet. Oftentimes losing a pet is a child's first real experience with grief and navigating. This can be so hard because parents are feeling the loss too and we don't always know exactly what to do and say to support our, our sweet kiddos as they go through this really important experience. So I'm so glad to be welcoming my guest to help me talk about this. So today we have Anne Marie Farage Smith. She is a grief expert and she has written a beautiful book about how to support and kind of how to move through healing through the loss of a pet. And today we're going to really hone in on how to support our kiddos when they're going through that first loss. So, Anne Marie, thank you so much for being here. Will you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Anne: Sure. Thank you for having me today, Laura. I appreciate it. So yeah, I am a lifelong animal lover. And basically an advocate for all animals. I just love them all and they all have our special, their special qualities and special needs. So I like to be there to, you know, advocate for them. So, I hold a master's degree in mental health counseling and also a master's degree in education. So I was previously a teacher, which I loved the career. And in my later life, much later life, I went back for another master's degree in mental health counseling. And, pretty much started specializing right off the bat into grief and loss issues. I was really drawn to that since it's very universal. I think that we all have, we all go through. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And I just kind of, you know, got more specific with, getting some training as a pet loss grief counseling, professional as well as, a grief educator. So I've had additional training specifically in the grief and loss area. I started the Rochester Center for Pet Grief and Loss as well, which is, I wanted to take it out of the counseling connections, private practice that I have and kind of have its own umbrella so that people can focus more on. Oh, I don't, I don't have a mental health problem which grief is not, it's not a pathological disorder. But, so kind of focus more and take that stigma out of the, you know, the mental health stigma and put it into just Rochester Center for Pet Grief and Loss. So, I see people through either of those practices for grief and loss and specifically for pet grief and loss.
Laura: Wow. You know, I don't know that I didn't realize that there were folks who specialized in pet loss. But it makes so much sense to me because pets often are really integral parts of the family. We create really strong bonds with them. I mean, I'm so glad that that is a resource that's available to the folks in your area and I'm sure kind of all over the world, there's probably people who will support you in moving through those times. I wanted to kind of hone in on, on parents, supporting children going through their loss of a pet. I'm kind of curious about, do you have an idea of what some of the common reactions kids exhibit when they are going through this loss? Like what do, what do we typically see for kiddos and what to look out for?
Anne: Well, Latin can become withdrawn when maybe they, that hasn't been their style. They may also express their loss and outburst of anger obviously the sadness as well and even, you know, boisterous activity, things that they weren't, you know, it wasn't kind of like their actual, if you, if you will. So that's when you can kind of like redirect some of their, you know, activities and, maybe hone in more on. Hey, what's, hi, how are you feeling today? You know, some kind of, general questions. Do you feel some sadness today? Maybe? Can I give him some hints. Do you feel some sadness or you feel angry today? And can you tell me to talk to me about that and kind of open that door of communication for them where they might be feeling more comfortable to say I just feel sad, mommy or daddy because you know, I miss our pet. So and so you know.
Laura: Can we, can we get almost even back up to thinking about like, so let's say we've got a pet who's not doing so well, perhaps they've got a cancer diagnosis. So the end is coming near. What can parents do to help children be prepared for, for a death that is, is coming. How should parents go about talking about this? Because I know for most of us when we were growing up, our parents, we're reluctant to talk about feelings. Many of us lots of people have, you know, the story of the dog going to live on the farm or you know, the goldfish that never died, that lived for 20 years. Because the parents just kept going and getting a new goldfish. And so there's a lot of avoidance for many of us growing up. And so, and the people who are listening to this podcast want to be fully present with their kids and their feelings and, and at the same time, it's intimidating to broach a topic like this. So what can parents be doing to prepare their children and just start that conversation?
Anne: I think it's just really, being there for them and being open about this topic. And also, you know, they're grieving too, the loss of this pet, most likely his family pet. And so it's important for them to share what's going on for them. In a way that the child can understand. So they know they're not alone in this. It's like it's not just them feeling it, it's not just mom and dad. It could be even the neighbor down the street because the neighbor down the street, you know, your dog used to go for a walk every night and pass by this neighbor and this neighbor interacted with your, your, your dog for example. And so they're grieving the loss too. So it's kind of like it's ok to, to grieve. It's important to grieve because our dog, our cat, whatever the pet was, was a very important part of our family. So, I think that's, it's really important just to, you know, keep reassuring them. It's okay, you know, and it's okay to talk about it and, you know, maybe if you can't talk about it right now, maybe you can draw a picture. Can you draw a picture of, of our pet that, you know, is no longer with us? Can you talk about some of the happy times that we had with our pet? Can you share that? So sometimes just even dancing, like maybe they're dancing because the dog used to kind of move around and act like he was dancing or she, you know, um you can kind of mimic that. It's like, oh, just bring up the happy memories that you have of your pet and you know, when your pet does pass, I think it's very important to honor that memory by doing different things to honor that memory. And I've got a whole bunch of those listed in my book, my book as well.
Laura: Yeah. So I feel like we kind of touched on the two topics here. So one is kind of how to memorialize the pet, how to support your child and kind of remembering and having a place where they can, yeah, like a kind of a container almost to put, to put their grief in. And then there's also this piece that I want to do. So I think we'll go there next, but first I just want to, I wanna, I think that so many of us feel lost for the words to use to tell our kids this difficult thing. In your book, you're very clear that you need to use very clear language with kiddos. You need to be fact based and not use ambiguous words like they passed away. But they, you know, put him to sleep, they put him to sleep, all of those things. So like what can you give us some just kind of? Okay, so as the parent, we've realized we might have to euthanize our, our pet or we realize like the end is coming close, what do we then go and say to our child, like give us some, some starter scripts if you can.
Anne: Well, you know, each case is gonna be different. Because you've got a different age of the child. So you've got to go along with their developmental state, of course. But I think the, the biggest general thing here, I know you're looking for a little more specifics, but is to be honest with them, absolutely honest. So one of my biggest irks is to say we put our dog to sleep or our cat, whatever the pet is. I may refer mostly to dogs just because, you know, there are probably more households with dogs. But, you know, I really want to be in um inclusive to all pets because it can be any animal that you have a relationship with so, you know, kind of keep that in the back of everybody's mind that um I may, I may mention dog more often, but it could be any pet. Okay. So with that in mind, keeping aware of the developmental age of your child and only, you know, the best way, you know how to proceed with that as, as the parent. But honesty is really important. So please please don't say we put our dog down, we put our dog to sleep. I have some horror stories of, of that happening and then the child would go and look why isn't the dog in his bed?
I thought he was sleeping, you know, so I never see him sleeping in his bed anymore. Because he's not there. So I think honesty is just really an important thing for, and, you know, taking it slow, especially if the child is younger, but gradually, you know, explain that, you know, there's tons of books out there uh that are addressed specifically for children. Now when I was an educator, it's, it's really important that the family notifies the teacher that, you know, their child lost their dog last night or whatever. So in case my child is kind of acting a little more withdrawn or whatever, please be aware that this has happened so that the teacher might, you know, be able to pull out a book or get a book from the library on,, grief and loss that is geared specifically for children, which incidentally, I also like to say a lot of those books for children are great for us to look, to look at too.
Laura: I agree. Yes.
Anne: You know, a lot of messages in there that are appropriate for anyone but, but okay, so those reading, sitting down and reading to the child. So, you know, the teacher's been notified. Okay. So the teacher gets a book and then maybe talks about that topic and, you know, you'd be surprised the other kids might share. Oh, my God. Yeah, I lost my kitty last year and I still feel really bad. So it opens up the topic and I get to see that this is a human experience. Yeah. And it's ok. It's, it's ok that you're still hurting. It's ok that you cry because you love this pet. You know, it was a part of our family for so long. It is shared in all our, our routines and so on and so forth and even our travels maybe, you know, so open up the subject in gentle ways. I think that's a big thing to, make it. It's okay. It's definitely okay to talk about this and, you know, you're not alone in my book. I really couldn't express that you're not alone in this grief. I'm gonna walk through here with you.
Laura: So can I ask you a very specific question about if you have to euthanize a pet? If you were making that decision. So we're not saying that they needed to be put down or put to sleep. What do we, how do we describe that in a way that's developmentally appropriate for per say, like a six year old? How would we describe what's happening in a way that is concrete and truthful and also developmentally appropriate?
Anne: Well, I think you can bring up maybe if there was a previous death in the family. So they know that, you know, maybe their aunt passed away and their aunt is no longer here. So then, you know, maybe you can use that to remember when aunt so and so was here and you know, you had a lot of fun times and now she's not but she because everybody that lives dies, you know, is no longer here at some point. So maybe you can start using some examples of, you know, basically any living creature passes on him. Unfortunately.
Laura: What about specifically for the situation of like euthanizing a pet? So I think that that part has always been difficult for my kids to understand and or do you have any recommendations for how to describe that process to a kiddo? Kind of describe the decision making process and, and what that actually looks like for the pet. What does the pet experience? Mhm.
Anne: Well, I think that's where it's, really important to be truthful about what this process is. Okay. So, to reassure them that the pet won't be in any pain. This is about, you know, a process that's gonna, they are gonna leave us in a short time, but they're in a lot of pain. So we're gonna be able to shorten that pain by injecting them with, you know, this uh substance that will make them feel calm and relaxed and then they won't be here anymore, but they're gonna always live on in our spirit. I think that's kind of really what we have to go with because it's a, it's a tough, very tough thing to go through. And, but the reality is we all, all living things die, I think kind of keep coming back to that. And always, you know, checking in on the child as they go through this process. And another important thing I wanna mention about, euthanasia is, I think it's very important that if the child wants to be there to present it to them, if you feel they can, you know, go through it with you being there that they should be there. And see what's going on, you know, and spend those. And so if they don't want to be there, which gives them their choice if they don't want to be there at least have them come in after the process is over and spend some time to say goodbye. Definitely. And with that said, it's also important for any other family pets to see the pet that has died because, I can't quote the exact, it's in my book. But I can't quote the exact number of don't know, like,scents that dogs can pick up. They have a just tremendous, sense of smell. It's just unbelievable. So they can tell something has happened to their pet and they can see, I believe they can tell they've left.
Laura: I mean, I definitely think pets mourn for their companions for sure. I remember being when my, one of the dogs that I had growing up died. Oh, sorry, when one of the cats I had growing up died, he and my dog were best friends. They slept together every night and when we went to bury my cat, my dog was, would, was kind of constantly like, just digging her back up, did not want, did not want, them to be gone and buried. So there was for sure. And that my dog slept on her grave for like three days at night. I believe it was so. Yeah. So I definitely believe that animals mourn. Yeah, I think sometimes talking about that, you know, seeing a lot, you know, seeing how in the animal world there's no fuss about it that they just do it, they just process, they follow their instincts, they grieve, you know. And then, and then they continue to, to move, move on with life while still holding that memory and is good for kids to see too. I think that it's helpful to see that even the other animals around them, care and love and, and lose each other from time to time. Absolutely.
Anne: Yeah. there's actually, a book on that. I have it handy here. Yeah, too many books here. Oh, here it is. Give me the title How Animals Grief. And this is a fascinating book. I believe I mentioned it in my book as well. What happened? We lost each other.
Laura: Yeah, my camera just turned off. I don't know why I'm back. It's okay.
Anne: So, I mean, it talks about different animals in the animal kingdom, and elephants in particular. Oh, my goodness. I mean, they keep going back to the grave, at different times throughout their life and, you know, it's like they're kind of like visiting, you know, their elephant that past, for sure. But so, that's really important to have the family pets, see and spend some time with the deceased, pet in the family as well.
Laura: And the, and the kids, I think that, you know, so often we, as parents, want to protect our kids, we want to keep them from feeling the depths of sorrow. You know, we want to protect them and keep them safe. And at the same time, we want them to have the full human experience and grief and loss and sorrow. Those are part of being human. They, you know, and so I understand the desire to protect and, but at the same time, we need to acknowledge that our kids as young as they might be are still fully human, right? From the very beginning, they are human beings having a human experience and part of that is grief and loss. I found for my kiddos when they were younger that talking about the body no longer working and dying was a good way to explain old age. For my kiddos. Are there so I, I love that you're talking about books too. I, I'm a, I'm a sucker for children's books. I have way too many that my kids will never read, but I mostly just have for myself. Are there any specific books on grief for kids that you love that you think? Are our listeners interested in checking out what we're having on hand?
Anne: Yeah, I can get up and peek at my bookshelf because I don't have them all, you know, quite down on my head. But there's also you have, you have the book there handy you can see in the back I believe or at some point you have some, yeah, there are some books listed, that I pulled up but there are so many and they keep coming out with them and so it's a matter of just kind of spending some time in the bookstore sitting down and, you know, or the library and, and peering through the book and see if you think this might be, one you might wanna get for your family library. So, yeah, there's because there's so many, there's, and they're all different approaches. So it's really best to kind of spend some time with that and, and check them out. The other thing is art is really good. You know, sitting down with, you know, some paper and some watercolors or some crayons and just say, you know, draw, tell me how you're feeling today and, and draw it instead of using your words. That could help some children. It may be just some, just a mess. But so what they're getting, they're, they're getting that. I mean, not a mess but, you know, I mean, like to them they think it's a mess but kind of like even taking that crayon and just kind of, oh, yes. You know, I'm and say, oh, it looks like you're, it looks like you're angry. Can you tell me more about that? And that could open up the subject? Yeah, I'm so angry because I don't know why my dog died, and so on. And so art is a great activity and just movement, even moving.
So just kind of standing up and stopping your feet. I'm stopping my feet. Why are you stopping your feet for? Because I'm so angry. Okay. And that's okay that you're angry because, you know, I get angry too. I'm so angry. We lost our dog too but, and then go into, you know, this happens. So if, if they can't use the words as much, see if they can kind of act it out by drawing, punching a pillow. Okay, I'm so angry now. Okay. So now you know what you can do to help with your anger, I can give you this pillow and you can start punching it and then you can tell, tell me, you know, more about your anger. How does that sound? And the child might say, yeah, I like to punch that, you know, so those are ways you can help get that out and maybe start a verbal conversation, maybe at first it won't be verbal. But I also wanted to share talking about how difficult it is and not being truthful with our children, how important that is. Because I had experience when I was a very young child. I never had a pet. My folks didn't own a house so they had a rental house and you know, we weren't allowed to have pets. So, I didn't have my own pet but my aunt who we used to visit, had a dog named Skippy, that I just absolutely loved. I couldn't wait to go visit her because Skippy would come running down the driveway when we pulled in. Well, you know, I was, I was very young but I remember that very specifically and I was fortunate to get a picture from my cousin of Skippy next to the car and I'm there bending over petting Skippy. So I have that. I just, I just got that probably about five years ago. And she was going through old pictures. So I was happy to get that. But the point I wanted to make is one time we went to see my aunt and Skippy wasn't there and no one told me anything to this day.
Laura: I'm so sorry.
Anne: Thank you. And it still hurts to this day. I mean, I used to just love, I mean, my gosh, it, it's just like it's still alive in me and you know, Skippy is in my memory so he is still alive, but he was no longer there and I don't know what happened to him. I don't recall anybody ever telling me anything. So that's my sad story but it's, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, it is so important that we, that we be upfront and honest with our kiddos and I think that they deserve that. You know, they deserve it because they've had a relationship with this animal. You know, and, and they need to know the truth and coping with grief and loss is a lifelong skill. It's a part of the human condition. They will have more significant losses in their life, you know, that come up with additional ones, you know, the loss of a spouse or, you know, like that will happen, you know, that is part of their future. And so experiencing it now when they're safe with their attachment figures and really processing it and learning how to, to move through all those stages is so important. Yes, very important. I did, I thought of a book that I know I love for families. So there's a series of books that started with a book called The Invisible String that really explains attachment and kind of how we can still be close even at a distance. But there is a book called The Invisible Leash that I think is beautifully written and beautifully done. Great for kids who've experienced a loss. And I also, so when your book arrived at my house and I took it out of its wrapping, my 12-year-old is always interested in the books that get sent here. So she often previews, especially the books that are lots of public, and sends me kids books. And so she often previews them and gives me a review.
But she, she started reading through yours and she's like, well, this is for grown ups. I think I'll just write one for kids. And so she sat with your book and wrote a book for children. So I think that there's also like an invitation to engage with that is really lovely. The other thing that I think has helped my kids as they've mourned losses. So my parents' dog died and that was a huge loss. For, especially for my oldest child, who she had a, just a, a very deep relationship with that dog. And they lost a guinea pig, about a year and a half ago too. And in both of those instances, they really loved looking back through pictures and videos of themselves and of the animals, you know, that they were missing. And so that has been a kind of just a go to whenever they are feeling like they're missing their pet, just be able to pull out like I have an album on my phone with some of our favorite videos for each of them and that we would kind of go through and, and just, you know, remember the good times how sweet they were, how unconditionally loving they were, how funny they were. You know, just some of those memories can really help ease the grief.
Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. A lot of good points. Laura. Yeah, that, that's what I was going to start to get into a little bit. It was honoring the memory of past memorials. Let's talk about that. Yeah especially like, I love the idea of, as soon as, you know, you know, the pet is, is left us, to light a candle in their memory and they have that maybe going, you know, for a day or two or a week, whatever you want, you know, in a, in a location that you come by often in your house and maybe next to that, you know, little nightstand or whatever you have a little picture of, of your pet, you know. I think that's just so important and then, you know, getting the whole family involved in planning a memorial service like you would do for a human. I mean, absolutely. That's when you could, decide what you wanna do together and then plan it together. And so this is really gonna be a nice bonding thing as well after and, you know, okay, so, and you can even make some doggy snacks, like if your dog loved, you know, carrots like mine does, for example, you can serve, you know, carrots and hummus or whatever. You know, you can make doggy biscuits, whatever you wanna do. But, the main thing is to be together as a family and share that time of sadness and then bring up all the wonderful memories. For sure. That's what you want to start focusing on and creating a lot of those memories. You know, it could be a collage. It could be a photo book.
Oh, my goodness. There's so many things we did around a tree uh in the backyard that uh our wishbone when he passed away, he used to love to run around that and chase the squirrels, squirrels. So we had our little memorial service around the tree, you know, and then a few months later, we got a memorial rock, a stone, I guess you would call it. And we put it there and uh then we had a figurine, he was a Jack Russell Terrier. So we had a ceramic or whatever material. It was a Jack Russell terrier. We put that next to that as well. So, like right now the children might want to draw pictures of, you know, or even write a poem. I mentioned writing haiku because it's simple and fun. Maybe they can write some haiku poems about their, you know, deceased pet. There's so many things to do that you can do them just to share that memory. And then like you say, go back over the years and maybe on the anniversary of their, their passing or if you used to celebrate their birthdays, maybe you take out the book and you look at it and flip through it and share some more of those memories.
Laura: I love those ideas. We are growing up, we always, when we lost a pet, we would plant some form of flower or bush or something over, over their graves. And that always felt good and meaningful to me, my girls have loved painting rocks to put over the pets, graves too. So that's a, you know, that's an activity that kids like to do just being able to paint on rocks and, and leave them little, little messages. I also think it's really important to allow your child's intuition to lead on some of these things. Oftentimes our kids know what they need in order to feel good, saying goodbye. And I think so, there's room for asking them things like, what would feel good right now, what feels like the right thing to do right now. They have great intuition and, you know, sometimes we have all these ideas of what grief and loss and mourning and memorials have to look like. And kids are just unencumbered by the weight of experience. And so they can be much more creative and open and in touch with what they personally and individually need. So I think it's important to ask them.
Anne: Yes, that's very true. Very good point. Absolutely. Yeah, they know a lot more than we sometimes give them credit for. And I also like to say that, I like to say that in regards to pets as well. I mean, it's unbelievable that we are finding out what they are capable of. Even to this day and the research, there's a lot of research out there coming up and it's just amazing. I mean, they could even now, you know, tell when we're depressed, because they can, they can kind of smell something going on. You just think they can use that sense of smell to alert possibly a person to, you know, their blood sugar. I mean, there's, there's so much about yes, so fascinating, but it's just uh I think we are extremely blessed to have them in our lives. They add so much, I just saw someone showed shared a video of me last night of she had lost her father, the person in the video lost her father. And so she trains dogs in dance movements. And so she did one in memory. She was also singing about her father and dancing with her dog. It was just like, oh my God, this is just so beautiful.
Laura: Yeah, so beautiful. But I think it was so great. We're so lucky. We're so blessed to have these beautiful beings in our lives. Well, Anne Marie, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your wisdom and your compassion and your love for animals with us. I appreciate your time and your energy here today.
Anne: Thank you, Laura. And I appreciate the opportunity to be on your, your podcast and I wish you well and all the folks out there that are listening, please remember you're not alone in your grief and you've been through a lot and there's, you know, somebody out here out there that cares and wants to help.
Laura: I love that. Thank you.
Anne: You're welcome. Thank you.
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