Episode 175: Why Moms Need Time Away: The Transformative Effects of Retreat with Dr. Jen Riday
/In this week’s episode, I have the pleasure of hosting the incredible Dr. Jen Riday, a mom of 6 with a Ph.D. in Human Development and Family Studies and the host of the Vibrant Happy Women Podcast. During our conversation, we dive into the reason time away (retreat) is so vital for women in general, but especially moms. Retreats arer a unique opportunity for women to invest in themselves, practice self-care, build friendships, and gain clarity in the midst of life's busyness.
Here are some of the takeaways:
Dr. Jen Riday sheds light on the transformative nature of the women’s retreats, especially her annual Vibrant Happy Women Retreat
My own experience, especially the welcoming atmosphere and diverse perspectives (women at all ages and stages of life) at the retreat
We also explore the upcoming retreat where I'll be leading a topic on Family Dynamics, exploring how to have healthy 1-1 relationships with important people in your lives. There are a few last minute spots available, if you’re interested in coming! Click HERE for more details.
If you’d like to join us you can follow the link below to learn more!
https://www.laurafroyen.com/retreat
And if you want to chat about it or ask some questions, email me at laura@laurafroyen.com and we can find a time to connect on the phone!
To know more about Dr. Riday and what she does, visit her website and follow her on Instagram and Facebook.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: In this episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast, my good friend and colleague, Dr Jen Riday and I discuss the benefits of retreat and getting time away for women and especially moms in the process of discussing this important topic. We also discuss Dr Jen Riday’s upcoming vibrant Happy Women Retreat. This is an annual retreat that I've had the benefit of being able to go on and present at a couple of times and it's coming up again in February and there's a few open spots. So if you'd like to check it out and come with us, after hearing this session, you can learn more at laurafroyen.com/retreat.
Jen: Hey, everyone. I'm here with Doctor Laura Froyen. I'm super excited. You're here.
Laura: Oh, yeah, I'm so happy to be here and we're going to put this on my podcast, too. So, I hope you'll introduce us as well, so, or introduce yourself. So, yeah, I'm Doctor Laura Froyen and I have my PHD in Human Development and Family Studies. I think I've been on your show a couple of times now. But what I really love is helping kids and families find more authentic connection with each other, and more authentic connection with themselves. So I have a background in marriage and family therapy right now. I work as a parenting consultant, coach and educator and I just really love coming alongside families during moments in their lives, period stretches where they're struggling and helping them figure out what it is they actually want and how to get there in an effective way that's backed up by research and intuition. So Dr. Jen Riday, why don't you tell my audience a little bit about yourself?
Jen: Yes, I'm excited to be on your podcast as well. This is really fun to be on a joint podcast endeavor. So before I do, my name is Jen Riday, I'm from Madison, Wisconsin. And my podcast is called Vibrant Happy Women. I want you to share though the name of your podcast.
Laura: The Balanced Parent.
Jen: Yes, the Balanced Parent. Okay, perfect. So as Laura said, I have a PHD like Laura in Human Development and Family Studies. And what I do is to help women with womanhood, not the specific emphasis on parenting, like Laura does so well, but helping women to figure out what they want to manage their time and balance their life and way that feels good and authentic. You know, often after we become moms or, you know, I'm empty nesting. Some of my kids, I should say after we become moms and have done it for a while, we burn out because we forget to put ourselves on the docket and to put ourselves first and pay attention to how we think and how we feel. And I, I help women with that so we can feel like life is joyous and, and awesome again, so.
Laura: I love that. Yeah, and we need it, right. So I think that it's so easy to lose ourselves in motherhood. And I think a lot of parenting podcasts in places, talk about that specific aspect of it. But I actually really love your podcast and your work because it's not focused on just women who are mothers, right? It's focused on because we don't just do this with our kids. We lose ourselves in the surface of our jobs in the service of our partners in the surface of our friends or our family. You know, we get this cultural message that it's not okay to put ourselves. Not even first, just on the list at all. You know? And I, I really love that you teach very practical ways to do that work of figuring out not just how to put yourself first, but how to feel worthy of that, too.
Jen: Yes, for sure. You know, I think it comes back to, I, I'm guessing most parents do this. I remember when my kids, I have six children. I remember when my first couple of children were born. I was gonna do it right. I was gonna take everything I'd learned in school about parenting and apply it all. And then you get these moments of just life where you're not getting along with your spouse or something's up with your finances or you're moving and it's so stressful and you're losing your temper and you start to assess and, or reassess and think, oh, I feel miserable. And at the end of it all, I think the best moms, the best women in general are living a life that's happy and showing others by example what that looks like because we all know what it feels like to be around someone who's unhappy and drained and exhausted and miserable and that's not really in the end what we want to give our kids. So that's why for excellent parenting, you know, why you teach, it really starts with excellent, self care and excellent boundaries.
Laura: Yeah and self mothering, right? So, being a good mom to yourself, even if you don't have kids learning how to be that good wise mother that maybe we didn't get that we always needed and always deserved.
Jen: Right.
Laura: Yeah, okay. So I feel, so we got together today to talk a little bit about the retreat that we have that you have coming up that I've had just the, the pleasure and the luck to be able to go to with you a couple of times. Will you tell us a little bit about the, the retreat that you host every year?
Jen: Okay. So I host what's called the Vibrant Happy Women Retreat, similar to the name of my podcast and it started in 2018. We started in Florida. We've been in Dominican Republic, this year we’ll be in Mexico. Next year back to the Dominican Republic. Location is great. We all love beaches in February, so.
Laura: We love that.
Jen: That's a given. But what I love about the retreat is the women I tend to attract through my work are looking to I guess invest in themselves again, invest in self care and habits and friendship and they're also very, very authentic. So I find it to be really rejuvenating for me even though I'm leading the the event. But we spend four days doing workshops, big group workshops, small group workshops, playing pickleball, eating together. The food is amazing. But just with the end goal of rejuvenating and unleashing some inner fire and figuring out what we want and getting that clarity that we sometimes miss when we're busy all the time and kind of getting out of the deep end of the pool, no longer treading water getting out so we can think and breathe and figure out what we even want for the next year ahead.
Laura: My gosh, I love that imagery of getting out of the deep end of the pool, getting out on the edge, resting, kind of getting back in touch with yourself. You know, the first time I went on this retreat, I was, was it 2022? I think it was 2022. So we were fresh out of the, you know, the hard years of the pandemic, right? So, I mean, just, it was a really hard time for the world and it was, I think my first trip that I took after things had changed after COVID, right? And I did not know what to expect, Jen. I was really nervous. I'm a kind of shy introvert and I really did not, you know, I didn't know anyone other than you who was going, I had a friend come with me. Thank goodness. That made me feel a little bit safer. But when I got there, the people were so welcoming and kind and it was a situation too where you can do as much or as little as you want, you can kind of dip your toe in, see what feels good and then take time for yourself to journal or to meditate or take a yoga class. And I, I really love that piece of it and the other piece that I didn't know I needed was time away by myself. Whenever I've been away from my kids for the most part, it's been to go with someone to do something else.
You know, whether it is with my husband to go do something for an anniversary trip or with, you know, to go visit a friend. It's never been just myself, you know, other than I think, like one time I spent the night at a cabin or, you know, in upper Wisconsin and the cold, you know, that was very solitary, which was lovely. I need alone time, but I had never really had a big stretch of it with other women that were from lots of different places and spaces in their lives. You know, so I met women who were grandmothers, there were women with kids in high school women with toddlers and women who weren't married, who were single and, you know, just kind of a big range and I think that for a lot of my time in motherhood, I had been surrounded by other moms. And while that, that community, that type of community is so important. And so, I mean, can be so supportive. I realized on that first retreat that we need diversity in the perspectives that we hear.
A woman who, you know, perhaps doesn't have any kids and is in their sixties. And as you know, you know, moving towards retirement has a completely different world view, a completely different experience and lots of wisdom, inherent innate wisdom to share. And when you get so in your experience, your world narrows down. And so the past two years coming to this retreat with you Jen, has really helped me broaden, my view of the world. Broaden my perspective, acknowledge where I am in, in a journey in a life's journey. I think it's so easy because I feel like in the thick of motherhood, there's the saying, you know, the years are short, but the days are long and I feel like that just really has captured a lot of my experience of motherhood. This kind of the days just seem to stretch, but then it all goes by so fast and seeing different women from different places in their life, different points in the journey has helped me understand that I have a lot of time left on this planet.
You know, that I have this small experience of having my kids growing up in my home for the next 18 years, for the 18 years that we get them is a very small portion of the lived human experience of being a woman, of being Laura. And I've just really, I've never had a context for really getting to know that that's been like, I've had the experience with in your retreats. The two times I've been to your retreat has been that for me just really helping me place myself in my journey and understand that I have a long way to go. Not in terms of growth, I mean, we always have growth to do, but I have a lot of opportunity, a lot of life to live that there's stages ahead of me that it's not all behind me. Do you know what I'm saying?
Jen: Yes. And, and, and it's not just motherhood. I feel like when we're in high school and college, there's this path in our brains like, oh, I'm gonna get married and I'm gonna have kids and there's really nothing after that.
Laura: Yes.
Jen: But is that kind of what you're saying? You have this whole individual identity separate from parenthood that needs to be fleshed out.
Laura: Yes.
Jen: And, and hearing other perspectives helps you to do that.
Laura: Yes. Absolutely. I really liked what you just said. Yeah, that we have this full identity outside of parenthood that needs to be flushed out. I feel like we, you know, so many of us go into having kids. And we think we know what it's going to be like and we think we know who we're going to be and our world gets rocked because it's very different than how we thought it was going to be. And we have to change our identity and then we stop, you know, and, and then I think we're going to bump up against other transitions. Our kids are going to move into teenagerhood and they're going to start looking to their peers for connections and belonging. And that's going to be a rough, it can, can be a very rough transition for parents if they haven't done that work all along the way of continuing to get to know themselves, care for themselves and mother and nurture themselves. And yeah, I just think we have transitions ahead of us and the, we're the constant in that the people around us, the jobs our daily activities will change, but we're the constant and we deserve nurturing. We deserve attention and focus.
Jen: Absolutely. That's one of the things I do love about the retreat. Now, it might sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but it's not me. When I showed up to the first retreat. It was small, a small group of seven and everyone joined together for a dinner and we were all nervous. I was nervous. What are they going to think of my retreat that I'm hosting? They were nervous because they imagined they were going to eat a meal with a celebrity which made me laugh. And in the end, by the end of two hours at that first meal, I said, and several of them also agreed, um, it feels like you're meant to be my best friends. I don't know how this happened. And that feels similar at every retreat. The women who come are people I would want to spend time with and authentic and real and funny and not divas, not divas. Whatever that means to you. That's not who comes to the retreats, real authentic growths, minded women who just are so awesome.
Laura: It is always an interesting experience to have folks realize that the people that they listen to on podcasts, they're just actually like real people who, you know, like to eat chicken tenders, you know, or something like, you know, I mean, so that is a very, you know, there's an aspect of that for sure. I love getting to meet, meet new people even though it's stressful for me. I found that at these retreats, having the opportunity to get to know people in some of the workshops has made it easier to see who I'm kind of drawn to and sitting, you know, sit down with, you know, at a meal. I've also given myself permission to have meals on my own, which I mean, gosh, for me as an introvert as someone who really never gets to do that, is really lovely. You know, normally, I mean, I love having meals with my family, but it, it's kind of a luxury to get to have something by yourself too.
So there is, there's space to do those things on your own. But, you know, there's, there's this thing that we go through during different periods of our lives where we're kind of forced to move into, move into spaces that make us a little uncomfortable. And after those points, you know, like new classes in high school going, you know, getting a dorm assignment in college, you know, after those points, maybe a new workplace after, you know, if we start a new job, but there's not very many opportunities for that, especially for someone like me who seeks safety and social security quite a, quite a lot. And I know it's good for me. I know it's good for me to stretch a little bit, you know. And it's nice to be put in a situation where like, well, if I don't want to just sit by myself, I've just got to go sit with some random people who are really nice and, and will be friendly to me, you know, and I mean, and that ultimately they're just lovely, lovely women, lovely women from different parts of the world and country, you know, who, have really wonderful stories to share.
You've done a lot of work on themselves, you are committed to doing more work or committed to growing and caring for themselves. It's really nice to find those people. It's hard sometimes to find those people in real life, you know? Like we know, I have a membership community. You know, we're all in line. We all have a lot in common and when we get together in our zoom room for workshops or for office hours, we all feel very comfortable with each other because, you know, we know each other so well. But it's hard to find that in person in vivo, you know, like having that like an actual physical person in front of us who's doing that work. And that is something that's really lovely about the women who come to your retreats.
Jen: That is true in person. It seems maybe there's a distance, there's a trick to finding people who love personal growth and doing the work and all those great topics as much as we do. So, one of my. Oh, go ahead.
Laura: Oh, yeah. I, I do think that there's people, you know, each time I've gone and I know a couple of people who are going this this year who are completely new to the idea of personal development too. So every time I've met a couple of people who are like, I just found it online and I signed up, you know, and I think that that's really cool too because so those people, there's this sense of adventure and like, let's do it, you know, which is fun and also hard for me. So it's fun to be around people who are adventurous in that way.
Jen: I remember someone last year. I know she wouldn't mind me sharing her first name. Trisha saw the retreat one night, I think 10 days before it began, maybe even just a week. She said, is there still a spot? And I'm like, yes, we have one spot left and she said I'm booking right now, I'm going to check my passport. Okay, it's good. I'm coming. It was amazing and she fit right in with everyone. So, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, that's awesome. I was, you know, I was just um talking with the person who helps me coordinate the classes that I teach for the, for UW Madison, I teach parenting classes for them. And she is retiring at the end of this academic year. And so I was telling her about the retreat. I was kind of working through our schedule and, and telling her when I was going to be gone and she's like, well, wait a second who goes to this retreat?
And I was like, oh, you know, lots of different people, you know, sometimes it's, you know, moms with kids, sometimes it's women who are transitioning to a new phase, you know, have just gotten out of a marriage or are, you know, retiring. She's like, well, that's me and I talked, we talked about it. And 20 minutes later she came out to the, to the parent like the baby class I was leading, I lead an infant play group and she came out and she was like, well, I emailed Jen and I'm going, I booked my tickets. I mean, I'm so excited Barbara's coming this year and it's really lovely to get. I don't know. So there are those people who they see it and they go, they jump in with both feet. I think that's amazing.
Jen: For sure, for sure. So, one of my, one of my favorite things at the retreat is the workshops in the afternoons and you led a workshop last year. So many people came up and said, oh, I love Laura. She's so authentic and nurturing and soulful. But tell them about your class that you led last year, what you can remember and give them a little tease.
Laura: Yeah I’m trying to remember. So, I mean, I think it was an inner child work.
Jen: Yes. That's right.
Laura: Yeah. Class. So we talked a lot about our little ones inside us, how important it is to be tender and loving with them, to reparent them in the ways that we weren't met by our parents because they couldn't, you know, for whatever reason. So lots of opportunities to do some healing in the here and now I know that lots of folks are nervous to do some of that work because it feels like they're going to have to go into the past and open old wounds and that's not what I teach. So this is more about in the here and now what does this part of you need now? Not necessarily what they didn't get then, but what do they need now? And how can you meet that need for them? And so we did that and it was lovely and fun. I think the year before we talked about window of tolerance and stress response and that was pretty cool too.
Jen: So you're leading a workshop at the next retreat as well, any hints or teasers on what your topic is? I mean, you don't have to lock it in. I know you like to feel into what feels right in the moment.
Laura: I am a little intuitive when it comes to those things that I feel like I've been talking. So it's, I feel like I've been talking a lot with parents recently about family dynamics. Like different ways we relate to people and how kind of the, the the geometry of families, right? So, and how to set boundaries and how to have really good authentic 1 to 1 relationships. So often relationships get complex when we pull other people into them. Or we're trying to navigate a relationship, you know, between our partner and our two kids, you know that like there's a lot of relationships happening in there, there's a sibling relationship, the partner relationship, the relationship you have with each kid, the relationship your partner has with each kid. You know, there's a lot of die of relationships and it can get quite complicated.
And so I think what I would love to work with and we won't focus entirely on kids because not everyone has kids there or wants to talk about kids. But I think what I really want to talk about is how to have really healthy 1 to 1 relationships with someone. And if you start noticing patterns where someone is pulling someone in or someone is inserting themselves into your relationship, how to gently hold boundaries with love and compassion so that you can have those direct authentic 1 to 1 relationships. That's what I've been thinking about. I don't know how that lands with you.
Jen: It lands really, really well, I mean, it, it almost reminds me of, family circle work. Am I imagining that? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Laura: I don't know about family cycle work it is. It sounds great.
Jen: Well, we'll talk about it later. It sounds, it sounds amazing, Laura. That's beautiful. Very good.
Laura: Okay and what are some of the things you're going to be working on? I also know you like to be intuitive. What are some of the things you're looking forward to talking about?
Jen: I have some new topics coming up, but I'm going to leave those as a surprise, but we always think about what's not working in our lives. What do we need to let go of and what are we ready to introduce? We need to always have an ending of some things and an addition of things to feel aligned and aligned with what's right for us. I guess I call it kind of listening to your intuition, but some people use the phrase aligned. We're, we're coming from the murky ocean or the deep end of the pool. We've gotten out, we're on the land, we're safe and we get to redirect our, our compass really. Where do we need to go next to feel our best? And what's the next best me?
You know, having those moments to get out of the churning waters of wherever you are and just breathe, feel the warm sand, feel the sun on your face figuratively and literally, I think it's essential and, and I've always done things like this myself. I'll, I'll often once a quarter just check into a hotel so I can hear what quiet sounds like and hear myself think and notice how I feel about different ideas. So the retreat is just a big one where you can do it for several days, surrounded with people you love and not having someone saying, mom, mom, mom or honey, honey, honey or your boss saying Laura, Laura, Laura, you need to do this. You need to do that. Having your attention always on those needs of other people. Makes it harder to hear that intuitive voice I feel like, yeah.
Laura: I love that Jen. You know, since coming to, starting to come to your retreat, I have given myself more permission to do that sort of thing to just take a day off where I block off my calendar and maybe I don't even go anywhere. But I'm just in my home by myself. I tell my husband to pick up the kids from school and go out to dinner because I'm just going to be by myself, you know, and give myself that permission to check in. It's important and, and it's, I think though, that it's hard for people to do that to give themselves permission to do that. Why is it so hard? Do you know?
Jen: I think we have these standards of excellent womanhood and excellent motherhood coming at us through social media, through the media TV, through our relatives or older relatives, especially, my mom would never ever have gone on a trip by herself. She would go with her sisters maybe. But, or to go check into a hotel, it just wasn't done. So we see these examples of how it's supposed to be. And we also see among those examples, women who are completely burned out and not loving their roles and not loving their lives. And I don't want to live that way. Life is too short. I am going to love this life if it kills me. You know what I mean? And I think that's why it's hard is those shoulds that surround us. I don't know. What else would you add to that?
Laura: Yeah. I think, I think we don't have a lot of models. I think you're right. And I think that we, we forget that like modern humans are living a very weird existence. Like the human beings are not meant to live in nuclear families. Like our, our kids are biologically and evolutionarily primed to make four significant attachment to have four significant attachment figures. They like our babies are meant to have four significant present caregivers. And so the fact that when we try to do it with all one person or, you know, just all two people taking care of these kids, it's a lot of pressure and it leaves very little room and we're not, it makes sense that it's hard because it's actually not supposed to be that way, you know, and this is, you know, I live in a nuclear family.
My parents don't want to live with us and help me raise my kids and that's totally fine. We just, the fact is we live in a very different way. But in the past when we all lived together and lived in close tight knit communities, we had aunties, we had grandparents who would take the kids and give you time to go off by yourself, even if it was going off by yourself to gather something, you know, for the community. You still have a stretch of time by yourself. You know, I'm involved in a moon lodge that an Anna Shanae woman hosts in our community and has invited folks into. And she talks a lot about how those traditions used to be such a place of sacred retreat for women that every month during your moon time, you would retreat to this space of rest and creativity. You did no work. People sent food into you. All you did was journal or bead or create and talk, share stories and wisdom for a week, one week, every month. Can you imagine how nourishing that would be for your partner?
Jen: We need that. We need it. I know we need it.
Laura: Yeah, and so there's this piece of it. That is the way human bodies are meant to work. And so we, we need this. We need this rest. Our bodies are crying out for it. And not just rest, we need community. We need a space to be with ourselves around others who are being with themselves, you know?
Jen: True. I love that. Be with ourselves around others who are being with themselves. Yeah. Did I say that right? Oh, that's nice.
Laura: Yeah, yeah. You said it great.
Jen: Yeah. Wow, that's great. You're making me excited for the retreat again. Thank you, Laura.
Laura: I can't wait to go, too. I'm so excited.
Jen: So this will this next one, we're releasing this just before the 2024 retreat. This next one will be your third and I think my sixth. Wow, this is amazing. I'm glad you've been to half of my retreats.
Laura: I can't even believe that. That's so exciting. When I went to my first one, a couple of years ago, it felt like you had been doing this for 20 years. I was so in awe of you, you know, I had really only ever seen you in a friend context and I, I was just so in awe of the, just the way you held a space for a room. I remember going to the you had a EFT tapping session that was just so powerful. If you've never done EFT tapping in person in a group setting, you don't know how unreal it is. I mean, I'm a scientist, okay, but there's something that happens during an EFT group session in person that just like there's just this like magnification of it. I was very powerful.
Jen: Yeah, that's, that's an interesting kind of little tangent. I'll speak a moment too. There is something very healing about in person energy where a group is doing healing work, trying to up level their thoughts um release a trauma um change how they feel about something. So I feel like every year that I've gone to the retreat, I've up leveled kind of my baseline happiness or my baseline energy a little bit, it's a, an intensive way to just push up a notch. I'm going to be this much happier now because you experience that healing in the group. You know, sometimes I feel that on Zoom or over a podcast interview like this, but it's magnified tremendously, the healing, so.
Laura: I agree. You can get the feeling online sometimes. But there's not, there's no replacement for in person work, you know, really at the end of the day, we're meant to be together, you know.
Jen: Yeah. And I guess I would add that my retreat style and why I invite you as well. We're not in our heads just learning facts. We are very much experiencing emotion and energy and love, I guess I would add. Something's happening to all of us at the physical level, at the emotional level. It's not just cognitive and that's also why I love the retreat. It's really healing that way.
Laura: Yeah, I love it. I love it too. Okay, so this is going to come out right before this year's retreat. Are there as of right now as we're recording, are there still spaces available?
Jen: Yep. This year's retreat is in Ixtapa Mexico, which is the Pacific coast of Mexico. I always love the Pacific Ocean. I feel like the waves crash harder and the water is warmer. You just fly in and club med the resort where we'll be staying, picks us up um all very safe and then we stay the whole time on the resort. So safety is locked in and then in 2025, the retreat will be back in the Dominican Republic at a resort. Similarly, you just fly in the resort picks you up. All your needs are cared for. All inclusive meals are included, room and board is included. You're just taken care of. You have this container to not have anyone need anything from you. And it's very magical. Yeah.
Laura: Oh my God. It's so magical to just go to a place and all your needs are met and you don't have to take care of anyone else other than yourself.
Jen: And you go to your room as needed and you don't even have a spouse to deal with as much as we love our spouses. Sometimes we need, I mean, what, tell me, Laura or maybe tell everyone why would you want to travel without your spouse? What does that do for you? Shouldn't you want to always travel with your spouse? I don't know.
Laura: Oh, okay. So, I love my husband as a recording. I just got back from a weekend trip with him for his birthday, like a four day trip with him for his birthday. It was wonderful and fun. But it's very hard to follow your intuition when another person has their own needs that need to be met too and their own desires and their own wants, you know. And so it's very, you and especially as women, we are so, so socialized to consider others needs before our own that it's very hard to get a clear sense of what you need when someone you care about is around you because we're just, we're just so trained to not do that. And so going by yourself is, is really freeing if you can get over that.
Like, if you've never done it before, if you can get over that hump of, they're gonna be fine. You know, like, you know, I know lots of, lots of moms who carry so much of the mental and emotional load at home. They have to think about things like, are they going to have food? Are they going to eat? Do they know what to pack for school lunches? You know, all of those things, like they'll be fine, they will be okay as long as we can get that, put it in a little, you know, do what we need to before we leave and then put it away. I actually really like that it's international because then I don't even turn my phone on. I mean, you know, I don't want to pay for international calling and stuff. So I just turn my phone off entirely and I love that.
Jen: I'm not ashamed to admit I have no interest in talking to my family while I'm gone because I know there will be something they want me to solve even on those phone calls. And so, yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah.
Laura: And there's, I mean, and it's that, you know, secure attachment, both with kids with partners means that we want to be connected while being our own selves, right? So it's the, it's the secure interplay between autonomy and connection, right? And we have to be able to separate in order, you know, like that, being able to confidently separate is a part of a secure attachment, you know, so there's, there's that piece of it too. It's good for us.
Jen: It is. And, and I will add, I used to be much more of a traditional woman where I was the stay at home parent and my husband worked and I didn't have host retreats or have a podcast. And at that time I like did everything. Sad to admit, not everything my husband would help, right. He would help and he would babysit. But going on my retreats was one of the best things because I didn't make myself available. And my husband has become so much more present in every way because that week where I was gone, he learned to do more of that stuff.
And now I'm happy to admit that he probably does more around the house than I do. By a long shot, he does all the cooking, he can sign forms, he can help people do their budgeting. Our kids have little budgets, I mean, he can run everything I only thought I could do in the past. And I love that it's taken so much pressure and that, that mental weight off my head to know he's got this, but it required me to detach enough to force or to allow maybe him to step in without me telling him how it should be. And he has his own ways in many, many things and the house isn't perfect when I get back, but it's decent. It's like doable.
Laura: It’s standing.
Jen: I'm not going to fall. It's scary. But, I mean, it's, it's completely worth it. It's, it's helped him really show up presently with our kids and with our household way better because he's had practice, much practice doing it. So it was a gift to myself.
Laura: And to him too. So the research backs this up when we do things like this when we had a sexual relationship and the person who does all of the primary caregiving takes themselves out and gives the other one an opportunity to, to really step in, it increases their enjoyment of their parenting experience too. So it's not just good for us. It's good for them. It's good for those relationships that are at home, too.
Jen: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. And my kids are, you know, they're still prone to want to come to me to solve problems, but they're quicker to know that their dad is available or they'll open the door and see I'm busy and I'll just ask dad. So I love that, too. Yeah.
Laura: That's great. That's great. I love it.
Jen: Well, I think we've really touched on a lot of the benefits of getting away, getting out of the deep end of the pool, stopping to tread that water and just sit on the side for some people that's with a margarita and figuring out what we want next, we get to do that. We get to decide we're more than just caregivers and wives and mothers and all the things. We are humans first, so.
Laura: Yeah.
Jen: Glad we could talk about us.
Laura: I really, I love that. Thank you for, you know, chatting about this with me and giving me the opportunity to share kind of what it's been like for me the past couple of years. I'm so excited.
Jen: Yeah, I’m looking forward to your workshop again, in Mexico.
Laura: Well, thanks for having me.
Jen: Thanks, Laura.
Laura: I always, I feel, I feel like it's such a, you know, a privilege to get to go to these retreats that you set up so beautifully.
Jen: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Well, thanks for the chat.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!