Episode 147: Understanding Children's Needs for More Independent Play With Blanca of Whole Child Home
/We are now back on The Balanced Parent podcast! As you all know, we focus on our children's play every January. And I would like to invite you to join me in my 30 Days of Play Challenge. As part of this challenge, the episodes on the podcast for this month will be all about PLAY! Yay!
To start the month off, I wanted to focus on one of the most common questions I get: How can I get my kids to play more independently? The secret to getting more of the coveted independent play is to first figure out what's getting in the way. The play challenge will help you carefully observe your child and get curious about the things that may be blocking independent play in your own family, and in this episode we will be digging into the underlying needs children have that need to be met in order for them to get into deeply immersive independent play. To help me in this conversation, I have brought in the genius behind one of my favorite Instagram accounts: Blanca of Whole Child Home.
Blanca is a licensed professional counselor with graduate training in clinical psychology who specializes in supporting children’s mental and behavioral health. She is also a parent of a toddler and is now pouring all her professional training into something she has always been passionate about—empowering parents to nurture healthy emotional development at home with evidence-based strategies. She founded Whole Child Home to offer parents an online platform with workshops, social media bits, and personalized consults to guide parents and caregivers worldwide.
She will be helping us understand:
Why it's so hard for young kids to play on their own
Why do kids always want to be playing with us
How play environment impact and nurture our child's independence and concentration
If you want to get more support for independent play, visit www.wholechildhome.com and follow Blanca on Instagram @whole.child.home.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts, and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody! This is Dr. Laura Froyen, and on this week's episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we are diving into play as you know, we're in the midst of our 30 Days of Play Challenge and so all of the episodes during this time are focused on play. And today we're gonna be talking about why it's so hard for young kids to play on their own. Why they always kind of want to be around us to be playing with us, kind of why that's going on for kids developmentally, and then how we can support them. To help me with this conversation, I'm so excited for my guest to join us.
But before we get there, I just want you to know that as I'm recording this, I've got a sick kiddo at home and I decided recently that I'm kind of done editing my life out of these podcasts. So if the doorbell rings or my kids come in where there is a dog barking in the background of my guest’s sound, I'm not going to cut that out. We're real people, we're real parents, most of us with real lives and I think it's okay for us to just be real here in this space. I hope that that's okay with you. Without any more ado, please welcome Blanca of Whole Child Home to the podcast. She's the creator behind one of my favorite Instagram accounts. We have this lovely little friendship online and we're getting to meet for the first time. So Blanca, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.
Blanca: Laura, thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled, like you said, it's like we touch face for a long time. Finally get to kind of connect through this, which is a true honor. I'm a longtime listener and also a longtime learner from your space and now with this new format for your podcast. I feel so honored because it feels like you're bringing into your home and like if your kid comes into right, so I'm gonna get to you know, so I'm just so honored to be here. Thank you. And thank you for everybody else joining and listening. It's for you to share your community with me. It's a big honor. Thank you.
Laura: Blanca. That really feels good to hear and I feel the same. I love all of the content you put out, it's so helpful and I'm really excited to talk about play. But first, why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Blanca: So my name is Blanca Velazquez Martin. I'm a licensed professional counselor. I have a master's in clinical psychology and I am the founder of Whole Child Home. The Whole Child Home is an online platform that kind of came up and I created during pandemic where I like to share evidence-based strategies for parents to learn how to support emotional development at home. Emotion regulation, social emotional development because I believe that we could do that and parents deserve to feel empowered to support their children at home beyond just thinking of therapy, right, therapist by training. So, and I'm a parent too. Now, four-year-old, back in pandemic, I had a one-and-a-half-year-old. So you know, now that period of time was a huge awakening period for me to kind of bring together my expertise, my experience, my training, my love for research and have almost a decade of experience as a researcher as well in the clinical field. So I'm really lucky and privileged to have now, this platform to bring it all together to support parents at home. I do workshops, I do parenting counselors online, virtual. So it's really an honor to have that opportunity to connect with parents now this way.
Laura: Yeah, our parents are wonderful. Like…
Blanca: You guys are. Yeah, if you're listening, you're wonderful and I love, we love working with you.
Laura: We do well, we love you and we see how hard you're working and we see how much you want good for your kids and for yourselves. I just, oh man, I just… Yeah, we so are. Alright, so let's talk about play, Blanca. Um, how do you think young toddlers don't like to play alone? Why are they kind of, why do they get kind of wanting to always be close to us? What's going on?
Blanca: Don't they always? And it's always perfectly timed. You know, again, not coming from this as a parent, I think it's, we are their source of safety. If your child is coming to you is, because they're coming to you with a need. And the tricky I think is figuring out what those needs are. So that we can meet them with the right tools and help them develop the right skills so that that need gets filled eventually from within and through the environment that you offer and that they can gradually get to a place where they play by themselves. But initially why they come to you because they have a need, either for safety for confirming that attachment. If they're having trouble if it's a season of trickiness or transition in their lives where it's just a bad day and they just want closeness. It happens to us as well.
Laura: It's just a good day because we want closeness and …
Blanca: It's a good day. We want to share it or like you know, I'm thinking of young toddlers but even older kids like, right now it's like come see this come I wanna show you something. So there's like so much joy that they want to share with us. It's the tricky days and also the joyful days, and you know play is a source of experimentation for them and of growth where they get to play out and test out a lot of what they're learning and a lot that comes with that is a wide range of emotions right? There's a lot of joy.
We talked about the pride that they feel sometimes with what they do. But there's also a lot of frustration sometimes in trickiness about their play. And you know you are a safe place to bring all those emotions to you are their source of regulation. We want them to be regulated and we want them to be independent. But we have to remember that you are the hub. Independence comes from dependence, dependence of you continuing confirming that you are that source of attachment and safety and that that regulation for developing independence in their play comes from you. You are the source of regulation and that process of developing skills to do all these things independently is a gradual process of which you are a crucial component and partner.
Laura: Let me just pull out something that I feel like you're saying and I want to confirm so …
Blanca: Yeah, sorry that was a lot.
Laura: No no no, it's good. It's so good. So the piece of understanding that if our kids are, if we see play as Children's primary mode for learning and processing and we all know that learning new things can be a vulnerable and tricky process. It makes so much sense that if we are their source of safety of felt comfort and love and regulation right? Because co-regulation is so important. It makes sense that while they're doing this vulnerable work of play that they would want us nearby to help with that to be this kind of safe presence. The safe loving, warm regulating presence. Is that what you're saying?
Blanca: Yeah, thank you for you know capturing it so beautifully because it is that and we live in a shared environment like we are all part of it. I think it's really, if you think about you know your life if you have roommates in college like there was really rarely independent time, there's always that need to share and to blab and to like yell out to each other what you're doing or to share something that happened or someone to call you, somebody texted you and you want to share. So, you know, there's that community piece that I think we often as parents forget about and we want so much independence for ourselves as well because let's be honest, we have stuff to do. We have dinner to make. We have more kids. We have a lot of stressors and we also want our independence. So it's tricky to live in a community place at home with all of these people expressing their needs to us when we also have needs and if they're not met, if we're not meeting our needs as well, then we want that independence and we want them to be independent so that we can have independent. So that's also tricky.
Laura: I really love that framing that community piece of it. You know, even like when I had roommates in college and you know, before I lived with my husband, I don't know that I ever lived alone, which probably was is an interesting thing and there was still that tension for me of like, I really want to be around my roommates and have that community and that fun and the shared experiences. And I also even then craved alone time. And I think for me, I never really knew how much alone time I needed until I became a parent because for me even when they're not in the house they're still with me in my heart and in my mind I'm still thinking about them and it feels as if I'm never alone.
You know? And so, it's really interesting to think about that though that our kids have that same need for community for relationships. You know that wanting to kind of share space, share mental space and delight in each other's presence. And we also I think all humans have some need for solitude. Um kids to even the kids that really seem like very clingy and you know really like never want to be alone. I think that there's still a need for some solitude skill that needs to be built. Everybody needs to be comfortable being in their own company. What do you think about that?
Blanca: Yes, thank you for bringing that up because I think as we talk about these needs that children have and how this is a gradual process and we're a community and where their source of dependence and safety so that everything else can develop. It's important to not go all the way that round. Like it's important to keep a balance and realize that yes it's a gradual process where a source of regulation were a source of attachment and safety but we are that source so that they from there, they can develop the skills to actually get to a place of regulation and independence because that is very much a need and it's a skill that they will need for they need for themselves and that we are responsible to help them develop, right? So it's a balance. It's a balance from understanding and welcoming the needs and helping to understand the meaning of this relationship and our role in supporting it. But also within that understanding, making space for them to develop this other skills for independence of regulation and self discipline and finding a balance within that. If that makes sense.
Laura: Makes so much sense. And I think to the, like I think it can be hard for parents to hear. I know it has been for me to hear that things like where their source of regulation they need us. They have this need. I think that sometimes that can kind of go into our brains and be filtered through and the end result comes out that we don't get to have our own needs that we kind of have to just like lay ourselves on the altar of motherhood or parenthood and sacrifice so that what those needs can be met. And I really appreciate this attempt to bring some balance into it. Yes, of course they have these needs. They also have these other needs. Human need for solitude need for support and building important skills and we're humans too. We get to have needs, we get to have needs for self-care for respite for rest for, you know, for solitude for ourselves too. And that balance is really tricky. But it's so important.
Blanca: It's important. And I think this is a part of kind of conscious parenting comes in, right? I like to think about conscious parents, not in terms of what we do with our kids or for our kids or what strategies we're using with our kids, but the conscious part about who we are as parents and what we bring to the relationship and fully conscious about the inner workings of our needs or lack of needs and how those play out into a relationship their children, right? And I think that needs peace and when it comes to developing independence, helping our child develop independence, that conscious part is key. If we are not taking care of our needs, if we're not tuning into our needs, the lack of needs met and really creating that balance for ourselves about self-care or, you know, acknowledging that there's needs that are in it.
It's gonna be much harder to not get frustrated when they come to us to not get frustrated if they want needs met, and our needs are not met, but that comes from consciousness and proactive nous within us about our own needs. So that when our child comes requesting please can't do this. We have an empty cup, it's gonna be really easy to just like lose it. And I'm not saying that, you know, by meeting our need, it's gonna be perfect and we're gonna be suddenly joyfully joining every piece of, you know, you know, witnessing this new lego creation all the time like every two minutes. But you know, it's a balance and it's that conscious piece creating that consciousness about our needs. That also it's an important part of the more Montessori term of the prepared adult, right? Yes. So there's all these things that we need to support them in developing, but if we're not prepared ourselves to do that and in our own mindset and spirit is not prepared, it's really, really hard.
Laura: Yeah, it's about the energy that we go into those interactions with. If we go in from an energy of resentment and energy of I never have time for myself and now you need something again? It's not gonna be satisfying to the child because the child is coming to you with a need that can't be met with resentment, it can't be filled with that energy and yeah, okay, so tell me more about this prepared adult piece of it.
Blanca: So this prepared at all. And by the way, I think if you, one of the things I didn't mention about whole child home is that very heavily inspired by Montessori. I was a Montessori child and I'm Monterssori parents, it's like I'm Montessori wanna be, but I love this philosophy in this method, not just for education, but because it really taps into the holistic view of the child. Maya Montessori did a lot of scientific observation of the growth of the young human and what they needed to simply be happy and joyful and to develop self-discipline and an intrinsic motivation to learn. Led by themselves. Led by independence. It's not just a goal of Montessori, but it is the framework. A framework that is developed from what she observed children needed and wanted. So believe me, your child wants independence.
Your child wants to do things by themselves. Your child wants that independent playtime. It is how we get there. That is the tricky part as you know, as adults and with the home. So, Montessori likes to look at things in kind of like a trifecta: the environment, the child, and the adult. And the most important piece for this method is really the adult, the prepared adult, how we show up, what mindset do we have? What kind of level of trust we have in our child's abilities. What kind of level of understanding and curiosity and presence we have for their needs as well. Right? And all of these things are also not just come from Maria Montessori, but we have a lot of research now to kind of guide us into, its just I every time I again I am a research professional, right?
And every time I read research related to child development and this needs, it's always like Maria Montessori… This is exactly what she said, and independence was one of those things and they're prepared at all. Right? We have a lot of research now indicating the importance of autonomy, supportive parenting and what is impactful? But the prepared adult piece, I would say when it comes to play comes from, number one meeting or needs and making sure that we're showing up with at least a half empty cup that we have failed our own needs for independence. That we are aware of our child's developmental stage. I think a lot of the trickiness in us being annoyed, honestly annoyed with like our kid not being independent, comes often from unrealistic expectations about their developmental stage.
There's a lot of misunderstanding and you know, and let's pause just to say, you know, when you have a two year old, a five year old and eight year old, if it's your first child or your only child, this is as old as you've ever seen them. that this is as capable as you've ever known them to be. So you want so much for them, right? But it's it's when we don't have that perspective of truly what's appropriate for their development that we start placing unrealistic expectations. And then that gets us into a tricky annoying annoyed mode. Right? So for play, thinking about, you know, or two year old having the already capable of playing alone for two hours or quiet time like that's just simply not realistic right now. It doesn't mean that you're going to be fully available for a full session of play just because they came to you. There's a balance right? But just being aware of your expectations and how they're impacting your interaction with your child. That's a big piece.
Laura: Yeah, I love that. I think it's so important because I think kids can really feel us. They can really feel our energy and because toddlers, young kids, you know, in that like 2 to 5 range, I know five year olds aren't really toddlers but these young kids, they're in a place with attachment where if they feel us pulling away it raises a little bit of separation anxiety, even if we're still in the same home, it's like an energetic psychological pulling away. They get a little anxious and then they seek out…
Blanca: Because you are the source of safety, right? Like this is an evolutionary thing like…
Laura: Right. And so I mean in this like this pursue withdrawal cycle is prevalent in all significant relationships where there's one person who's kind of maybe pulling away emotionally or psychologically it makes the other person move towards them. That's just what happens. And so if you're coming from this energy of, kind of I don't want to be doing this. I have more important things to do. That raises some questions and kids, what could possibly be more important than me? Are the dishes more important than me? Is her phone more important than me? I better find out because if that's true, like we're in trouble because I know evolutionarily in the deep genetic code that I have, that I'm supposed to be the most important thing. You know? Like this is what kids, the perspective…
Blanca: Yeah, maybe this calm behavior is not working, so maybe I need to yell louder. Or maybe I need to move faster, or maybe I need to jump on you. Kind of like…
Laura: Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy.
Blanca: Yeah.
Laura: And so I really appreciate the acknowledgment that our mindset is so important. I think our mindset is everything. And then I also think that there's room for like a place of okay, so once we get the mindset on straight, right? we got that, that there are, I do think that children know, only know what they know, right? And so we interacted with them in a certain way. If we've kind of taught them that this is how play looks in our home, they come to rely on that same impact, you know, So, one of my favorite quotes from Magda Gerber who was the kind of the mother of the Rye parenting. Most people, I feel like if they know about Rye, they know about it from Janet Lansbury, she says begin as you mean to go on. And most of us, as when our children were little, began in a way that we didn't actually intend to go on for forever. We battle in front of their face, give them light-up toys, we do the hard work of play for them, right? And so then we come into toddlerhood and then all of a sudden like we know that they're supposed to be seeking more autonomy and independence and so we expect them to be able to do these things.
Blanca: We expect them, that’s the operating word.
Laura: Right. We expect them to be able to do these things that we've never really given them the opportunity to do, to build that skill. And that's one of the things that I think my play challenges so powerful in doing is it teaches the parent how to two, step back. And put space for the child to start building some of those independent play skills, while understanding that it's a process.
Blanca: Yeah, which is not just, you know, this is, we have a lot of research on this. Like those, those elements of autonomy, supportive parenting and like the ones that you talk about in your in your play guide and your play challenge are those elements of - Yes, we are there but we're also scaffolding difficulty that way. You know, they can tackle one challenge or what level of challenge at a time and we're there but it's that scaffolding that allows that independence and in our motivation to develop. That pause that important pause of like, we want to jump in, but let's not and just see what happens. You're not leaving, but you're there to let them feel the struggle, but also the joy and pride of accomplishments didn't play.
Laura: When we pause, what do you think we're communicating to our kids? When we pause.
Blanca: I trust you, I trust you.
Laura: I trust you. Like, and I, I need like t-shirts with that. Like I trust my child. But really how again, with that conscious pieces, like what does it mean for us when we say I trust my child? But do I? Like, okay, so let's actually ask ourselves, right? Like do I? What are the things that I trust my child with? But it is when we actually start asking ourselves that question that then we actually say, why don't I trust them for them to put their shoes on? Why don't I trust them for them, to climb that pickler triangle? And why don't I trust them to kind of like slide down the slide and see what happens?
Like as long as safety, you know, safety first, right? But you know, do you trust your child? Do we trust them? And exactly when we pause, we are communicating, I'm here. You're safe because I'm giving you space. I wouldn't if you weren't safe and I trust you to figure this out. Let's see what happens. Yeah. Gosh, can you imagine being trusted in that way? Like just even now as an adult being trusted in that way. Like, I mean if you're parenting with a partner, like having them come in and instead of like, you know, maybe criticizing them when you've done something at the home in the home or reminding you to do something to have like your partner come in and just come, come in with an energy if I trust you to do this in the family.
Blanca: Yeah. And here's yeah, I wanna, you know, this is something that I think I've talked about online before, but it's like if you go to the Gottman Institute, so this is like the institute and and this this amazing clinicians that have developed a lot of models and and skills and our entire training for marriage and and partnerships and relationship building for adults. If you look at all of their markers and strategies and model and training, we're looking at things that are foundational of all relationships, including relationships with their child. There's so much that if you go to their site and you're translated to children, you're like, am I actually doing that with my child? Am I pausing? Am I acknowledging Am I learning from what they bring to this relationship? Am I, do I know who they are?
Laura: Yeah.
Blanca: Because also that pause means many times is, I want to learn how you do it. I want to learn what you have in mind, let me see, let me learn. Like, you know, it's a relationship and pausing helps you develop that value. I don't … and learn about the other person too.
Laura: I also think that play is a really great time to practice that pause. So I most of the time when parents talk about wanting to have the, like the pause and parenting, it's during high intense like emotionally intense moments where we’re triggered and overwhelmed and we want to be able to have that pause and respond consciously. You know, and respectfully to our kids, but that's a skill in and of itself, getting that pause, tuning into yourself, tuning into your child in the midst of that pause…
Blanca: That's chaos, right? That we're talking about…
Laura: Right. So play, what better way to practice that really important skill. And during a delightful play interaction with your child, you know? That often doesn't carry the same amount of heaviness. Okay. I have a question now, so we are talking about kind of why my child won't play alone? And I think we've covered pretty well kind of like developmental and attachment reasons why young children especially need some support during their play from time to time. Are there things though that parents kind of unwittingly and with the best of intentions, due to undermine their children's development of independent play skills?
Blanca: So and again it's not, it's an inadvertent, right? And it's we do a lot of what target tells us to give, you know, we give a lot of what target suggests we give, and, you know? A lot of, there's a lot of content and you know? If you know me from Instagram and you know Laura or now you're gonna get, your feed is gonna get filled with a lot of different things you're supposed to be doing, right?
Laura: So, just some context, this is all inadvertent listening, right?
Blanca: Yes, and you're doing your best with what you know. We all are. And, but I think, you know, I'm gonna go back to the pause because that's one of the thing we tend to jump in a lot. We want to rescue, we want to be with the pause, the reason the pause works is because it keeps us from number one: interfering when our child, when the child has an ability to actually see a challenge through. So that we're keeping from them from that opportunity to develop resilience and intrinsic motivation to learn. Because when they feel a challenge and they get through it, that is how that intrinsic motivation to seek more challenges develops. When the brain is able to create a pathway of feeling, there is a challenge and I can't do it, and I did it by myself, that feels joyful, your body gets filled with dopamine.
This is a physiological response that the brain learns, and once again, because the brain wants dopamine and it's gonna do anything to get it. And guess what, like seeking it like getting through a challenge yourself, it's so much joy, so much bright, so much physiological goodness that they're going to go for it again. But it requires you to step back and not jump in and again, trust. That's one of the things that other thing that I think we inadvertently do is we, when it comes to trust is that we take away things that could, that we are scared that could harm them or that they may not be ready for. That is why I I said, you know, one of the things that you have to do is really think about what you're offering.
The toys, the task and really think about it in steps of difficulty and instead of being afraid of like, oh no, I don't think they can actually, you know, climb that pikler triangle. Okay, what is the first step to get there? How can we develop that skill? And what can we offer to help them develop that skill? Maybe a lower piece of furniture that they can start climbing up and then gradually present to that other pickler and bigger thing, right? And taking it slow, but it's that really having a perspective of the different steps that it takes to do something and offering trust to get through them and offering trust in advancing and giving them more and more challenges that gets you there. and if you're held by fear and lack of trust, it is really, really challenging for them to trust themselves and approaching those challenges.
Laura: I so agree. And I think like, I think that there's like a flip side to that, to that sometimes we, because we want our kids to advance, because that's what tells us to do right? And so we, because we're always supposed to be better, getting better and improving and I think that there's room for just questioning that a little bit and like, isn't it okay for our kids to just be kids and not always improving? Like it's okay for them just to be that I feel like we could do a whole podcast episode on that whole thing. Yeah, but because we have this kind of consumerist, capitalist-driven need to get our kids excelling, we put toys and play objects into their environment that they're actually not developmentally ready for. That are, where they, those toys outstripped their current skills.
And so what you're talking about scaffolding is finding the leading edge from of what they can do on their own and what they can do with support. And oftentimes we put play objects in a playroom that are like three steps ahead of that. That only leads to frustration because they're not ready for it. And then they need a lot more support and parental presence. So just as an example, I have, I run a one of the very few things I get to do in person. That paused, you know, for two years for the pandemic. I run an infant play group at my local university. Oh my gosh! It's so much fun. It's so much fun. But this year we have babies that are mostly six months and under. And in my play bin, my toy bin. I have a little shapes order, a little wooden shape sorter that is not developmentally appropriate for the six month old and younger kids that are there.
But it's like its current state. But many of those kids are, there's actually, there's one kid who is I think seven months and he is into like the putting in and taking outright. And so with the shapes order, I leave it open. So he's not using and have the blocks nearby so he can do that and put them in, the like the actual like hole that they go into. Not the like shaped holes. I feel like I'm having a hard time describing this and he can play with that independently in that way and it's just right on that leading edge. That's where it's in the schema that he is in, the perfect place. But if I had the kind of the whole, that you used to empty out the shapes covered, he wouldn't be able to use it at all. And it would only be a source of frustration because he's not ready to do the shape matching.
Blanca: And what happens with frustration. We said we seek our regulating source, which is the adults. So then you have them unable to or you know at that point needing you. So then you're like why aren't they playing by themselves? So then you're curious, right? You look at the material and I love that because yeah.
Laura: Yeah, I mean but that's what it is. So if you are seeing all of a sudden you know you've added a few new things to your child's play environment and they are suddenly needing you a lot more and being very frustrated, taking a look. Are they actually ready for these things? So we put, you know, they got magnet tiles for their second birthday, are they actually ready for … or do they need to be put away for six months and then brought back…
Blanca: … magnetize podcast because my gosh, there's so much frustration.
Laura: I mean they are frustrating when they fall or do we need to put the magnet tiles in a different context. So like when my kids were at that age with magnet tiles where building things up was really frustrating because they kept falling and they didn't have the ability to really get the physics of it down because it's definitely physics, we just moved the magnet tile been to in front of our washer and dryer and they just did shapes on the washer and dryer and use them there instead of building up, you know? So I mean like those are small adjustments and the play environment that allow for independent use of really like attractive fun play objects. Gosh, I feel like I lost my thread. Sorry, oh, the other thing that I wanted to just highlight that you were saying before on this pause piece that I feel like you kind of alluded to, but we didn't just outright say it and I think it's really important to say, let's just gonna say it, oh sorry, I'm getting a phone call. Okay, declined it.
So with, when we don't pause and I think, you know, because when we are driven by this need to kind of rescue or fix or solve problems for our children out of the goodness of our heart, out of our, out of our love for them. I mean, and just from the like, oh my gosh, my child is struggling and I can help them. Of course, we want to help of course. But when we do, we rob them of opportunities to learn. We rob them of that feeling of success, of personal accomplishment that natural into forensic joy of having had a goal and reached it. And we robbed them of the opportunity to develop problem-solving skills. Because I love examples. And I just got my daughter's permission to share this example with parents.
I'm going to share a beautiful illustration of this if that's okay, I think examples are helpful. Yes. So yes, so when my 10-year-old daughter, Ellie was, she's just turned 10 yesterday when I'm recording this when she was a baby, probably about four months old. She wasn't rolling over yet. She had this favorite little toy giraffe that she loved and I would periodically set up a little place. I mean not periodically, every day, she would spend time on a play mat with a few simple objects placed around her in the kind of the RYE method. And that day Gerry, the giraffe happened to just be out of reach. And that child, this four-month-old child spent 40 uninterrupted minutes trying to get to that giraffe and it would have been so easy and so tempting to just hand it to her or to just nudge it closer? I did not, I video-recorded snippets of this time.
Blanca: I can remember showing us that snippet of that at some point.
Laura: That was with a different child, Gerry was the main motivation for both of my kids. And rolling over, Gerry is like a delightfully attractive toy apparently. But yeah, that was, I do have that video of my younger daughter, Evie on my Instagram page in the midst of struggling and me not intervening and..
Blanca: Which is so hard, right? Like that conscious piece. What does it feel right? What does it feel like for us?
Laura: I get messages still about that highlight on a regular basis about like that was so hard to watch and I'm like, yes, it was hard in the midst of it too. But it was important. Anyway, so back to my four-month-old oldest daughter. She finally got Gerry and I have these pictures of her right? When she got Gerry into her hands and into her mouth, which was what she wanted to do. And she just had this like delight in her eyes. And I was telling my daughter the story yesterday on her birthday about that and she goes, Mom, this is my 10-year-old. She goes, mom, if you had just handed that draft to me, it would have ruined everything.
I wouldn't have gotten the chance to feel so happy that he had done it. I wouldn't have been able to believe in myself that I could do something hard and it would have taken that away from me. You would have taken that away from me and mom. You would have taken that away from you because you got to be happy seeing me do something that was so hard. And I was like, yes, child was the wisdom of children, you know?
Blanca: My God, so true. Thank you for sharing that. And I honestly this is. And some Children are so eloquent to kind of bring this up. But believe me, even if your child doesn't have the words yet, that is exactly what they're feeling.
Laura: Yes, exactly. And think about this 10-year-old child reflecting back to me the gratitude that I trusted her as an infant. She can't remember. You know, But I mean, it was a very beautiful conversation that I have my permission to share. And I think it's just so important to remember that when we don't pause, we rob, we have the opportunity to rob, you know, we're choosing our own kind of instant reduction of stress for this over this more long-term process that we are engaged in with our children. And I just want to say like, it's okay to do that from time to time.
Blanca: We're in a state of balance, right? And we're not perfect, we're not robots.
Laura: I mean, there's no guilt at all, but, and there can be a conscious choice of, like, I know I shouldn't solve this problem for her, but I'm overwhelmed and I'm trying to cook dinner right now. And so I'm just gonna hand her the damn giraffe because I don't have time to sit close with her right now and be fully present with her. So I'm just gonna hand her the giraffe and I'm aware that that's what I'm doing, you know because right now the frustrated tones, the struggle is triggering me and I need to stop right now so that I can be the calm parent that I need to be to other family members and that's okay.
It's okay too, it's the awareness, I think that's so important. You know, like the aware intentional choice of what we're doing. I'm acknowledging, I'm pausing right now. I'm acknowledging it all. And I understand that I have to, you know, a multitude of very good options. Balancing my needs and the needs of the rest of the family and the needs of this child. And I'm gonna intentionally choose what I'm going to do with full awareness of the possible the variety of outcomes, some positive and some negative. There's always positives, the negatives, you know, like that's conscious parenting, right?
Blanca: Yeah. And it's simply not realistic to give our 100% attention even if it's consciously possible. It's just not realistic. We are also modeling realistic parenting that is what you're doing. Like sometimes cooking your dinner is takes precedence because that's kind of what we're doing after that I can feed you and you know later today or already earlier today we had our moment of really conscious connection or you know.
Laura: Yeah, exactly. And that's like that's the balance, right? So, you know, when I talk about Balance Parenting and there's so many things that we're balancing all the time and it's never like we're never balanced on the perfect tipping point, right? We're always like making all of these adjustments and figures.
Blanca: It’s a missing middle. Like you’d say. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah, Exactly, yeah. Okay. So I mean, we talked about those kind of those two ways that we can kind of get in the way of our kids independent play. I feel like we've been talking for a long time. I could talk to you forever.
Blanca: I know, I’m sorry. I…
Laura: No, no, no, it's so good, I just want to summarize so kind of not pausing jumping into rescue. Having play objects that are either you know too far like that either outstripped their skills or too easy that are kind of in that like like that’s Vygotsky who developed scaffolding, he calls it the zone of proximal development, not zone of kind of what they can do on their own and what they can do with support that aren't in that kind of that…
Blanca: And we like your role in those moments, I'm sorry, it's to protect concentrations. So when you see that you're not only helping the brain develop those pathways for intrinsic motivation and problem solving and efficacy and resilience is you're protecting concentration. And that concentration is going to expand and expand and expand the more you offer respect and…
Laura: Yeah, I think that that leads perfectly into another thing that parents with the best of intentions and totally inadvertently do to undermine their children's independent play. I think we interrupt their play a lot. And we interrupt their play, I feel like mostly with either like our own agenda, like because it's time to go to school or it's time, you know to eat dinner and of course, we've got to go to school and eat dinner, but we could observe for a little while and wait for the moment when their attention lifts from their activity to our face and then insert our kind of our agenda. And the other one that we interrupt with praise. I think we interrupt with feedback and judgment because praise is a form of judgment. Anytime we label anything, we're judging it.
Blanca: And then what happens is we were like the example of like do you see this? Did you see, did you like it? Did you, mom did you come see this? Why? Why? Because and I'm not saying this is the only reason right? Because right now I have a four-year-old that just does that with everything right? And I have a lot of, you know we have the years of practice of me not offering so much praise, right? But it does happen sometimes that when we layer this interactions with praise, that becomes the expectation from them. So if we're far away from them and they're accomplishing all this stuff and they're not receiving that interruption with praise, they're going to interrupt themselves to go seek that.
Laura: Yeah. Right. And that all interrupts the process of building consultation, building their focus and attention skills, those executive functioning skills that they need to do well in school later in life, you know? Absolutely. Okay. So I feel like those are three big things that if we can spend a little bit of focused time, focusing in on that we might see some more independent play emerging. Yeah, I think I… go ahead.
Blanca: Go ahead.
Laura: I was just gonna say, I think one other thing that we can do when it comes to, if we want to see a little bit more independent play happening in our homes is meeting that like that need for attachment, that attachment need for togetherness for closeness, proactively filling that child's cup. Their connection cup proactively will allow them to be, you know, to seek a little bit more independence and as opposed to kind of filling it on an as needed basis when they come to you. I'm kind of getting ahead and filling that cup. I think another thing that can happen. What were you gonna say?
Blanca: No, but about that, I think it's so crucial, right? Because we're talking about cups filled and needs met and when they're all met, they're going to be seeking those and we can be proactive about thinking about who has what needs and how we can work as in within the relationship to meet them so that then we can move on with our own, you know, interactions. But I think, and it's not a magic, the thing with filling their cup with connection outside of the goals for independent place. It's also not a magic bullet, right? Like it's not, it's not, it's not a magic wand that you're gonna move. Like I offered connections and now like they can play independently.
Laura: No, it's not a means to an end.
Blanca: It's not a means to an end right? Like you're not. Yeah, but it does. I think you're talking about how important it is because, it's when we do that we are feeling that cup and when that moment of connection, if you make it into a consistent, predictable time of undivided attention when you are interacting with intention then that moment is like, okay well right now I'm being told that mama is not available because she's doing other work, and right now it's quiet time, she's not available. But I know that after quiet time we have something planned or I know that when she picks me up from school we always go to the park. Or I know I know she can't but in the morning I already have my cup kind of semi sort of full and I remember that we read a book this morning and that every morning she gives you that time so that I have that, that's ours. So it's not magic and it doesn't solve all of those independent needs. But to have that predictable consistent time, it's so important just for that relationship.
Laura: Human beings are creatures of habit and rhythms feel really soothing and so having those cup filling moments built into the fabric of your day. I mean rhythms and rituals. I know you're a Montessori person. My girls are in Waldorf school and I think that there, I think that their use of rhythms and rituals has really been transformative when I've taken that focus and applied it to my own home. Having that built just into the fabric of their days really helps them be more independent. So like we've been talking for an hour now and my seven year old's been who was sick, has been playing with legos at that whole time. I think she's listening to an audiobook too, but she might have paused that I think she got herself a snack. But before this, I spent uninterrupted time about half an hour just with her listening to her, narrate her lego play. You know, and I will go do so again afterward and we have a plan, you know? For what we're gonna do after. And I think that that's I mean, that's what it looks like in practice, you know, so we can get this time for ourselves.
Blanca: And we didn't talk about it's tricky because we kind of brushed on it and people have questions, but it's like an entire other episode, right? Like the boundaries because we are not always available. We cannot always jump in. We cannot always be like a welcoming blanket of safety in the way they would like all the time, right? There are boundaries and there are times when you're gonna say, I'm doing a podcast, I'm not available. I'm gonna get there whatever. But even those boundaries have to work within the context of having filled or at least having a conscious awareness of what everybody's needs are so that you can either work on meeting them after or have a rhythm of meeting those connection needs in service of keeping those boundaries that goes hand in hand.
Laura: It totally does and collaboration is a key aspect of that. So when I let my daughter know that we were, I needed to have this podcast interview, we made a plan. We worked together. What would it be helpful, you know, what would help you, you know, feel comfortable while you know, while I'm on this podcast? What do you need? You know, so that you are taken care of while I'm on this podcast? You know, we collaborated and problem-solved together in order to have everybody's needs being met. I mean, and that's you know, once you're out of the like three-year-old stage, problem-solving really is all that respectful parenting. It's that really. Yeah, Oh my gosh, we could have a whole another podcast. I hope …
Blanca: Well, thank you. You made me all the way here.
Laura: Yeah, I hope you'll come back and maybe we can talk about some of those things like how to set boundaries with our kids when we have our own needs, our own needs for space and time. I think it would be a good conversation. Okay, Blanca, thank you, thank you for sharing your wisdom about play with us. I want to make sure everybody can go and find you and follow your beautiful account. Do you wanna kind of tell us where you are and I'll make sure to put it in the show notes?
Blanca: Oh, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure and thank you to all of you who made it all the way here and listen to us and yes, there's so much more that we can talk about. So do touch base, DM me. DM Laura and tell us kind of what you thought, you can find me on Instagram at Whole Child Home. So it's whole dot child dot home and whole child home dot com online. You can also send me an email and check out kind of what I have to offer, but dm me. Let me know kind of what you thought, what questions you have, and then I would love to touch base with Laura again so that we can help answer them. So thank you.
Laura: Yeah, thank you so much Blanca. I hope that you go off and have a beautiful rest of your day.
Blanca: Thank you. You too.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!