Episode 217: Helping Our Daughters Through Puberty with Grace and Ease with Tatiana Berindei
/In this week’s The Balanced Parent Podcast episode, we’ll dive into an important and sometimes challenging topic—supporting our daughters through puberty. I’m joined by my dear friend Tatiana Berindei, author of Path to Puberty, a spiritual counselor, and a mom of two. We’ll explore how we can support our daughters through puberty while deepening our connection.
Here are the key takeaways:
Reframing puberty and menstruation as wisdom, power, self-care, and not shame
Age-appropriate conversations about bodies, puberty, and overcoming parental discomfort
Parental self-awareness and growth influence children’s learning beyond words
Community support that reinforces positive and empowering messages about puberty
Menstruation as a powerful tool for emotional and energetic processing rather than an inconvenience
Gently guiding girls to understand and listen to their bodies
Fostering a safe and open environment where kids turn to parents for guidance
Supporting children when peers lack open conversations while maintaining trust
Respecting individuality while acknowledging menstruation as a significant rite of passage
If you want to connect with Tatiana Berindei, visit her website pathtopuberty.com and follow her on Instagram @path2puberty, and Facebook @path2puberty.
Resources:
Path to Puberty: The Ultimate Resource Guide for Moms and Daughters
Remember, guiding our daughters through puberty with openness and trust strengthens connection and empowers them on their journey.
I would love to hear from you! If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the podcast or any takeaways or wins you’d like to share you can leave me a message here: https://www.speakpipe.com/laurafroyenphd
A crucial part of being a parent of complex kiddos is finding community and support. If you are looking for an opportunity to connect with me IN PERSON, I’d love to invite you to my upcoming retreat for caregivers. I’ll send out more information soon, but you can check it out here if you’re interested! I’d love to get to spend a couple days really connecting with you and supporting you in this stage of your parenting journey! Head here to learn more! www.laurafroyen.com/retreat
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen, and on this week's episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we are going to be diving in and exploring around the topic of how to support our daughters as they go through puberty. To help me with this conversation, I have Tatiana Berindei. She's the author of a gorgeous book called Path to Puberty. It's a guide for mothers of daughters on how to walk the road through puberty with grace, ease, and wit. She is a mom to two daughters, who I know well and a dear friend who lives here in Madison, Wisconsin with me. Tatiana, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Will you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Tatiana: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. Who am I and what do I do? Well, like you said, I'm an author. I'm also a spiritual counselor. I have been for over a decade, and my focus right now without work is guiding mothers to orient to their parenting journey as a spiritual path. A lot of spiritual wisdom traditions are really masculine in their root and their focus. You know, it'd be great if we could all just go meditate in caves all day long and reach enlightenment, but that's not the reality for the majority of us. And, I firmly believe in my bones that motherhood is actually designed to be that path for those of us who choose it. And so, Yeah, I'm very passionate about supporting moms, and like, what does that look like on a day-to-day basis?
Laura: Oh, I love that. I, you know, I think so many of us conscious parents believe that too, that there, our parenting journey is an act of growth and healing, that there is a, a growing up alongside our children. Not that it's our children's job to teach us, but that they are wonderful teachers, you know, that we learn a lot from them along the way, and a lot from ourselves as we grow into who we're meant to be. I'm thinking about, you know, just even thinking about the wisdom of our bodies and the wisdom of our children as we watch them. That is a far cry from how I experienced myself during puberty. I had no teachings around me that my body might hold its own wisdom, that it was working in the time that was right for it, or even, you know, gosh, the messages I received around. My body was something that was good, something that was mine, something to be talked about. And it seems to me that when I'm reading your book, that that's really what you want us to come away knowing and what you want us to be teaching our daughters too. Can you tell us, can you dive in there a little bit?
Tatiana: I mean, most of us were not raised with that kind of messaging, right? It's a rare bird who was like, yeah, my mom was totally positive about her menses and taught that to me too. Most of us were raised with, this is something that is taboo, you don't talk about it, it's an inconvenience, it's a burden. And it's just this shameful thing in the shadows. That if you're going to talk about it, you only talk about it with your girlfriends and you only talk about complaining. And for me, that is such a travesty, because what I have come to understand about menstruation over the years that I've been in this work, I've been in you know, spiritual work and and especially the women's work for over 20 years at this point. And moon time, menstruation was a huge part of that journey for me. And coming to recognize the power in it, and the beauty in it, and the sacred gift that it is for us. Like it really is when we utilize it. It's a huge gift and a huge source of power, but we don't live in a culture that supports us to slow down and utilize that energy during that time.
We live in a culture that's designed for the 24 hour male clock, not for the 28-day female cycle. And yeah, I mean, my ultimate vision for humanity, which I doubt is going to happen during my lifetime, but I'm still going to hold it, and I'm still gonna stand strong for it, is to see a cultural shift where we actually create space and respect for that time for women. There are a couple of countries that have menstrual leave. Where you can take a day or two off of work during your heaviest flow days to rest because those countries understand that women's health and longevity is actually very linked and tied into their ability to rest during that time. That's what we're supposed to be doing, to take a pause.
Laura: I mean, I'm not even like recognizing that we need rest during that time, but also when women get it. They, the whole world benefits, right? The entire society, like, so for these places that have that type of leave, that it's in place, not just because it's right and just, but also because it's good for everyone.
Tatiana: Exactly, and I think, you know, it could be easy to interpret that, like, taking that time off as a weakness. And that's something else that I'm a huge advocate for is like rest and relaxation are actually essential for health and well-being, and they're not, it's not a weakness to stop.
Laura: And not something to apologize for.
Tatiana: It's not a weakness to be able to slow down, to be willing to slow down. It's actually a huge strength and takes a tremendous amount, especially in our culture today. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to be willing to stop.
Laura: Okay. Well, I, you just made me think about something, Tatiana, that's happening in my house right now. So my kiddos have been going through, you know, like a typical illness that's happening around, you know, that's just a bug that's going around. And I like, I definitely got it too. And one of the things that I have noticed is how quickly I will apologize for my need for rest and how quickly my kiddos will say that they are, you know, apologizing for needing something extra during their illness. You know, I'm sorry that you have to miss work. I'm sorry that, you know, I'm sleeping with you. I'm so, you know, because I'm scared to go to bed cause I might throw up in the middle of the night, you know, like just all of those I'm sorry, and like, I know I've modeled that. Like I know that that part of that came from me. I know that they're out in culture, they're out in the world too, so they're getting to other places. And I, I have my own story around illness growing up, and so I know where the I'm sorry came from within me, and the need for reassurance that it's okay for me to rest and, and take up space and resources as I recover. But who, it's heavy, and now I don't know what to do, now that I see it in my girls.
Tatiana: Oh my God. Well, I think the best you can do is call it out. And just like in the moment, like, hey, you don't have to be sorry, and I know that you got that from me, and that's just something that I'm unlearning. Because there's a lot of unlearning that we're doing. And I think it's good for our kids to know that I have those kinds of frank conversations with Sanna, at least. Luna's still a little bit young for some of them because she's only 4, but um sometimes I have those kinds of conversations with her. It's just a 4 year old version instead of a 12-year-old. Yeah, I have those conversations with Sana all the time though, about my fallibility and my mistakes and. You know, and she knows she sees me in my challenges, and we talk about it. I don't expect her to fix it or anything, but I think it's important for her to know. You know, where those are coming from in me. And, you know, I also share as she's gotten older, I will share more with her of my awareness of the origin of like, how I was raised and where some of that programming came from in me. Because as I have come into awareness of it, I can track it. And so I feel like when I share it with her, then I'm also setting up. An ability in her to track.
Can I tell you a really funny story actually, like kind of an aside, but I was so proud of her the other day. So we got a television. I haven't owned the last time I bought a TV, it came with a VCR in it, and it was like you turned it on and there were channels. I have not owned a smart TV. We had one, but we just like what we had hooked up to a DVD player. It wasn't hooked up to channels or anything. And we were like, let's get a TV so we're not just watching movies on our computer anymore. And I, it was kind of traumatizing for me to turn the TV on and see all this stuff that I don't want and that I don't need and like I just want Netflix and Hulu and Disney Plus I don't, I don't want all this stuff, right? And so I was there with me and I like having to like programs every little step of the way on the TV and getting more and more irritated and she stops and she's like. And then I start to freak out about like, oh my God, what if my 4-year-old could get the remote and then she could like have this world that I do not want her to have access to with her fingertips and I like started to like go into this like we need to get rid of this television, like this is the worst thing we've ever done. And San is like, mom, it's okay. Just take a breath in. 2, 3, 4, she helped me through box breathing. I was like. Okay, you're gonna be fine in the world. Like, I really don't have to worry about you with this remote.
Laura: But I mean, to your point though, Tatiana, that that bombardment that we experience when we turn on our smart TVs, all the things we don't want our kids to see, the YouTube channels and the, the stuff that, you know, it gets suggested to us, that is like culture, right? And so even like talking about this out loud with our kids around like these things are out there and we're, we can't. Keep our kids from hearing those messages. We can't keep our kids in a little cave where only the stuff we want them to hear comes in. We have to teach them how to be out in the world, be discerning consumers of the messages that are coming in from others, right?
Tatiana: Totally.
Laura: Yeah, and that's part of learning how to walk that path of puberty for our kids, right? Because their awareness is expanding, there's, you know, as they move into the tween years, they're looking out into the world a little bit more, they're looking to their peers for more information and part of the helping our teens navigate puberty is is teaching them about their bodies, about their brains, and how to filter information that comes in through their own internal sense.
Tatiana: Yes, and I will say that in childhood, it actually, I actually think it is our responsibility as much as we can to filter.
Laura: Yeah, well, yes, yeah.
Tatiana: And then that lays the foundation to be able to have those conversations when they're older. The biggest mistake that I see parents make when it comes to addressing puberty is they wait until puberty is imminent. And that is like, if you've waited until your daughter is already exhibiting signs, she's 10 and you have had no conversations with her about it, like you're about to miss the boat or you kind of already have, like, I mean, there's still things you can do, but I really, like, I am a fierce advocate for parents having these conversations as soon as possible, because it's not one conversation, you know, we have this whole like the talk thing in our culture. We're like, oh, I'm going to have the talk with my kid. And like, that doesn't work. That's not a thing. No one has a conversation one time about something and actually like go. away with real.
Laura: Information and understanding. No, it's an ongoing conversation. Can you walk? Oh, sorry, I was going to make it really practical for our listener for just a second. Is it okay? Okay. So what does that ongoing conversation sound like at various ages? So I'm thinking about the listener who's got a 6-year-old daughter versus an 8 or 9-year-old daughter. Can you give us a little, a few little touch points around what that sounds like when we first start out? What are the things we're sprinkling in? Just can we have some examples?
Tatiana: Yeah, so I always go back to the body, right? Kids are naturally curious about their bodies, and that usually starts around age like 2 or 3. and so how we talk to them about their bodies starting young is actually going to lay the foundation for how we can be sprinkling this in as they get older, because they're going to notice their bodies changing. They're going to, I really, follow the kids' lead and it's pretty easy to do because they have curiosity, and it's natural curiosity, and it's just up to us to pause long enough. Well, first off, we have to work through our own discomfort around bodies. Like, that's a big piece when I I'm actually gonna be doing a um workshop at the school coming up, how to talk to your kids about sex, and how I open that workshop is having everybody say out loud the different names of genitalia, like kind of an entire room of adults say the word penis together. Can an entire room of adults say clitoris together? Say vulva, like say anus, like what like being willing to say the actual words of our body parts, that's number one is for the parents, you have to get comfortable with saying those words, and if you're not, like, go look in the mirror and practice just like saying these words because if you're uncomfortable saying them, your kids are going to be picking up on like, oh, is there something uncomfortable here that I need to feel some shame around?
Laura: Because they're so tuned into those undercurrents.
Tatiana: Yes. Energy. That is like the number one thing. Yeah, everybody wants something to do, right? They want a to do list.
Laura: They, they do. That's what I just asked you for.
Tatiana: Yeah, that's what you asked me for. And like the to-do list is to get comfortable with your body. That's number one. For parents, get comfortable with your own body parts. Have you looked at your vulva in a mirror? That's one of the exercises in my book. Yeah, just look at your body. And be willing to look at it without judgment, without shame. Because if you can't do that, you can't actually talk to your children about bodies in a body positive and affirming way. Because they are going to pick up on the subtle energetics underneath. They're going to pick up on your discomfort, and unless you are willing to own your discomfort and where your shame came from, and talk to them about that, to say something like this is uncomfortable for me because I had really weird programming as a child, and I'm working through that. And so if you feel me being uncomfortable, it's not because there's anything wrong with your body, it's because this is like new for me and I'm working it out and it's really about me. Like, unless you can communicate about what's going on. If you've got to get that comfortable with body parts.
Laura: Oh, Tatiana, you just made me realize like, my mom did exactly that when she was talking about, you know, this stuff with me. She acknowledged that she had awkwardness in her voice. She told me funny stories about how awkward her mom was and how she didn't want to be that way with me. And then here I am being awkward, you know, she, she made it funny and, and she made herself very approachable. Gosh, I don't think I've told her how much I appreciate. That, you know, there's definitely aspects of conversations around my body and stuff that I wish had gone differently with my parents, with my own upbringing. But she definitely laid a foundation for me that allowed me to have to do things much more differently, you know, with my kids because that's it, right? Yeah, it doesn't happen all in one generation, right? It happens, it shifts over time.
Tatiana: Yeah, and we're not going to be perfect, and I think that's never really like big thing to let go of such a BS thing we hold ourselves to. But that's also why I wrote the book, because like, There's layers of the work, and the more of it that we're willing to do, the less we're then putting on our children and future generations.
Laura: Yeah. Oh, I like that a lot. There are layers of work to be done, and the more we're able to do. The less we're putting on them to have to do the layers have to come off eventually. And we're not going to do it perfectly, and we're not going to get it, get all the layers off and have our kids have no work to do. That's also not real. That's not a thing. Our kids will have work to do, but it will maybe be less and not the work that we've just avoided, you know, that we just pass on blindly.
Tatiana: In different ways. Like, let's be real. The world is in a place it's never been before. And We need our children to be able to be present and rise to what is occurring in the moment and respond to what's occurring in the moment and not have to have all of this garbage to sift through in order to do that. And so the more of this work that we like, they've got plenty of work cut out for them in this future that is before us.
Laura: Yeah, you're so right. Okay, so I can hear people panicking. I can hear listeners panicking thinking, I didn't do enough, and now I've got these kids.
Tatiana: Okay, so courage comes in, right? And because of this work, it's not always fun, it's not pretty, it's not easy. It, you know, if I can swear, it's fucking sucks sometimes. It is hard work, but it's why we have to do it. Because if we don't, they will, we're giving them more to do. And yeah, they will have work to do, absolutely. And again, why I wrote the book is because I think that we don't know what we don't know, right? And I'm definitely not claiming to know everything by any stretch, but I do have elders in my life that have been guiding me and teaching me and had their hands at my back urging me to write this book. And There are layers to investigate that I think most people don't realize just like at the beginning of this segment of this conversation, like, what's the step by step process, get comfortable with your own body. Like most people, that's not where they would start. It's like, oh well, I have to say, I have to have this script to say to my child, I have to lay, put these books out on the table for them or whatever. Honestly, like, okay, having books around your house is great, but they're learning primarily from how we are.
Laura: Yeah, not even so much what we say, but how we are.
Tatiana: You know, and that's the hard part. That's really and and it's like, until you're willing to just accept that. Then you're gonna be missing many, many layers of the work. Like we, we can, we can bitch and moan about it all we want. And that's not going to change the fact that it's fundamentally true. How we are and how we are showing up is what we are teaching our kids.
Laura: I mean, that's just the facts, you know, humans are social learners, that like, we are a primary model of learning is through modeling, like that's the prime or mode of learning is through modeling. Like that's how the human brain evolved to learn.
Tatiana: Yeah, and again, so we're not gonna get it perfect, like except that now, you're not gonna get it right. I don't think there's a right. Like I can say all this, and at the same time, I still don't think there's a right way to do it. Because there's so many of us and we're so varied in how we were raised, and what we're bringing to the table, and how we're resourced, you know, being resourced makes a huge difference in whether or not we can actually do this work. And we live in a culture that does not resource us innately. Right? We have to create that for ourselves. I was thinking about that today, women are communal creatures, right? And it's there's studies that have been done that have shown that when women spend time with other women, we actually need to for our health. Right, we, if we're not regularly gathering with other women, we are not going to be as healthy.
Laura: Right, 100%, yes. It's a proven scientific fact.
Tatiana: And making that happen can be really, really hard. And that's part of the work.
Laura: Okay, so it sounds to me like you're like, if I, if I can pull out some steps for the listener. The first is to really engage in the work yourself, and it also sounds like you're asking us to build community both for ourselves and for our daughters.
Tatiana: Yeah, and that's why. I have this community builders' discount with the book where if you buy 5 or more, you get 40% off because I wanted it to be a tool. For building community with moms who are willing to do the work and who have daughters, because here's the thing. We can do this in the vacuum of our own homes. But if we also have not built culture up around our children, that reinforces what we want to see in them. Culture's gonna win every time. Environment is stronger than willpower, right? And so, building that community is at the forefront of doing the work. Because then what we're doing is we're creating social proof for our children. We're creating social proof for our daughters that no, mom is not crazy and the only one who only when he soaks her cloth pads and she gives the water to her plants, you know, like that's like it's not just your weird mom. There's other people who do that too.
Laura: Yes, oh my gosh, my plants love my mom water and yes, plants do, they do. They love it. It's so good for them, lots of iron. Yes. Okay. So there's the, I like that social proof too, and I like, I like the idea that there just is there, there is an alternative. I think that for me growing up, there was just one view presented to me, you know, just one view, the curse, Aunt Flo, like what, like, those things were, were presented to me, and it's nice to have an alternative view. I feel very curious about it. What would you like? You know, we don't have to talk specifically about your daughter, but, you know, the, you know, the kind of metaphorical, your daughter, what would you want your daughter to know about her body? And about her Menzies as she moves through puberty. What, what are you hoping that through this book daughters, maybe plural, more generally, will come away knowing.
Tatiana: Well, first of all, that it's totally normal. And that wanting to rest during that time is totally normal and then on top of that. It's not something that you need to hide or shy away from. When you let yourself rest, underneath that is a huge gift waiting to be opened. Oh, yes. But you can't get there unless you slow down.
Laura: Tell me a little bit more about this gift. I feel like maybe the average person who is listening to this hasn't really thought about themselves and their body and their menstruation in a different way. You know, we, we grew up in the 80s and 90s, we grew up thinking, you know, thinking that like, yeah, we can have birth control to stop our periods, you know, like, what, like, tell me a just a little bit about what are some of the gifts that if we start looking for it, we'll notice. And if we allow ourselves to rest, like you, you mentioned at the beginning of when we started talking about how powerful um women can be during this time. I just feel very curious about it and, you know, and I, I just to, to help maybe the skeptic listening in on, on this conversation, you know?
Tatiana: Sure. So I'll actually use an example from my own life because I'm uh just coming out of my bleed and this last month. It was very intense, as you know, some of, and I was involved in just some like intense social interactions that We, I think it's safe to say, were pretty all consuming for me for a couple of weeks and I was having a really hard time. I felt almost hijacked by what was going on and was having a really hard time kind of clearing my mind around it. And one of the things that I've tracked is that. In the luteal phase, which is after ovulation before menstruation. This is when a lot of unprocessed stuff is gonna come up for us. And if we are not used to tuning towards our cycle as the gift that it is, it's going to seem like an inconvenience. We're going to maybe get more irritable about certain things, more emotional about certain things, and all of that has been cast as a bad thing culturally, right? PMS were problematic during that time. Really, what's happening during that time is that what is under the surface, which is unprocessed, which needs attention, is coming up and revealing itself for us to address during that rest period of menstruation.
So when we give ourselves that pause, we actually have not just a physical cleansing mechanism, but an energetic cleansing mechanism built into our bodies through the process of menstruation. And all it takes is a little bit of consciousness and a little bit of practice with maybe some meditation and visualization techniques. To actually intentionally move whatever that chaotic energy, distressing energy was or is, to move it through and out our bodies and clear it. So like the weeks leading up to my menses when all of this craziness was happening. I, like I said, like hijacking and what I did on Saturday was. I used this time, I went and I sat on the ground outside because the earth is very grounding for us, and we need that, and it just so happened to be a gorgeous enough day that I could do it.
Laura: It was a beautiful day here on Saturday, yeah.
Tatiana: And I consciously brought all of that chaos, all the stress, all the drama. Into my womb And out through my blood. And that's like. That's a fucking superpower that we have. And only we have that. That's amazing. That is amazing, amazing. And I will tell you today. That stuff that was just flowing through my mind and just kind of wheel spinning stuckness, yeah, that's.
Laura: Okay. So for those who are listening who are maybe not quite ready there. I wanted to just pull out this wisdom that you were talking about, that our bodies, what you're saying is our bodies are communicating with us. So when we experience grumpiness, the kind of, you know, the, that kind of premenstrual, you know, PMS stuff, that really what our body is doing is communicating to us. And I think this is something we want, we all want our kids to be doing anyway is learning to listen to their body. When we think about food, when we think about activities, sports, like that, all I want my kids doing is listening to their bodies. I want them to to their hunger signals, their full signals, to their safety signals when they're climbing a tree. Like, all I want is my kids tuned in to their body, because their body has so much pleasure signals, all of those things, right? And so what you're saying is, so part of helping a child who's going through puberty understand all of these new signals that are coming up, right? The new way your body is communicating is learning what they're telling us, right? And so, what irritability might be telling us is that we maybe have some things on our mind that we need to work through, and we need to have a day where we're reducing stress so we can focus on some of those things.
Tatiana: Or we need some time to ourselves.
Laura: Or some time to be creative.
Tatiana: Or the way that our energy moves when we bleed is different. And so we're much more absorptive. We're way more sensitive to our environment. We're around what we're around. That's why a lot of women will get the urge to clean right before they get their period, because when you're in a chaotic environment and you're bleeding, it's magnified, right? It's a magnifying amplifying energy and so you might want to just retreat, withdraw, and for a young person, that might be a new experience for them. And they might not actually know that that's a, an option that they have to kind of take some space for themselves, and also how to encourage them to do it without just going and scrolling something.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely.
Tatiana: Like, how do you, how do you take, how do you actually have downtime?
Laura: Right. Gosh, so like when everyone is just pissing me off, that might be my body's way of telling me I need to be alone. I need some solitude. Yeah. Yeah.
Tatiana: Or if you keep getting frustrated at your husband for that one thing, like, maybe there's actually something that you need from him, or you might actually need more connection with him, or there's a conversation that needs to be had. Whoever you're pissed at, like, look at that. What, what's underneath? What's the material there that's being offered for you to investigate more deeply?
Laura: Oh, I feel curious about as our girls are in the throes of this, in these feelings, getting these signals from their bodies. How can we guide them to understand and listen to their bodies without kind of triggering that teenage response of kind of pushing away mother's advice, or, like, how can we guide them gently in, in knowing and understanding these things?
Tatiana: I like to ask questions. I think questions are really powerful, because then you're not like inserting.
Laura: Your own agenda, your own ideas, yeah.
Tatiana: You just, you're inviting them to.
Laura: What does that sound like?
Tatiana: So, I mean, obviously it's gonna depend on the situation, like, Oh, like it seems like you're really upset. Like, do you think some time alone would be helpful right now, or. You know, is there anything you feel like you need to talk about? Or is there something else going, like, you seem really upset about something that Wouldn't normally elicit such a huge response. Is there something else going on? Or like, when was the last time you ate?
Laura: Some anger is a real thing too, is a real thing too, yes. Especially, I think, you know, if we are getting signals from our body that are uncomfortable and so we start trying to ignore them, then we ignore other signals from our body. I think like that's often what's happening when people get angry, is that they've spent so much time not listening, or trying to suppress uncomfortable feelings, and then they just are suppressing all of the feelings that all of the communications that our body is trying to give to us, you know, it's hard. To listen to our body with a very selective ear, you know, we're kind of just turn the volume up or down, you know.
Tatiana: It's actually trained out.
Laura: 100%, yes. Yeah.
Tatiana: And I think also like when it comes to this age of puberty, I let my daughter come to me. I feel like I've paved enough of a way with her. Through being open like she knows if she has questions about her body, she's gonna come to me. Because I've made it clear, I've established myself. Not as like the ultimate authority over it, but like as someone who knows a thing or two about what's going on, and she's she's gonna, and she does, she comes to me all the time with her and you've established safety that she can establish safety and I've also taught her how to express her emotions, right? Like I've given her emotional language and that's something that I started with her when I was very young. You know, I see that you're having feelings. Are you angry? Are you sad? Like, this looks like sadness, this like, oh, you look so happy right now. All that's just like naming feelings because they're happening, um, it gives them that intelligence and enforces that intelligence. Again, emotional intelligence is something that's trained out of us.
So as parents, we have to work like we're the ones to teach that to our children. And so she, yeah, she does feel safe with me, and she comes to me all the time, and she really values my opinion on things, which is kind of cool to see because at that age, my mother had made it clear that she was not the person to come to for a lot of different things. And her opinion wasn't really what I wanted. You know, I didn't want her opinion because she was so critical about everything, and I felt so judged and criticized by her all the time. She was not a safe person for me to come to. And so I go into my peers. Yeah, I mean, it's great to have peers, but when it comes to sex, and relationship things, peers are not where you want your kids getting advice.
Laura: No, or the internet.
Tatiana: The internet, yeah, I mean, that was, I, I luckily grew up before.
Laura: Thank God we grew up before the internet. Oh my God. I'm so grateful for that.
Tatiana: You know, most people are going to go to Google.
Laura: Yeah, they're going to Google, gosh, it was like an auto response on Google, like for questions like that, go ask your mom, go ask your grown up, go ask your trusted adult. I mean, I did read a research study once that was a very big survey of teenagers, and the teenagers said that they got most of their information. About sex from their peers, but they wanted to get most of their information about sex from their families, from their adults that they trusted. But they didn't. And isn't that interesting, you know, and so, yeah.
Tatiana: Because the adults are scared to talk about it, they are uncomfortable with body parts.
Laura: So one of the things that I've run into a little bit for me, and I'm curious if you have to, and, and I'm, I'm not entirely sure how to handle it, is having a child who has a parent who is open and willing to talk, not awkward, just, you know, like your daughter has, like my daughter has, is maybe a little bit unique. And what do we do when we run into our daughters having peers, friends, whose families are not having those same conversations. And kind of like I guess how to navigate that, because there, I mean, It's not happening right now yet for me, but I can see it happening. I already got questions that are from other kids that are coming to me through my kid. Because they don't have an adult that they can ask the questions to, you know? And I, I feel very interested about how to approach that. I would love to approach it from a community way. And at the same time, I don't want to breach my child's trust to, you know, in kind of stepping out and going to the parent level. Anyway, I just feel curious about how, how to navigate some of those things.
Tatiana: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really important question. My response was to write a book. That I know that's not what everyone's going to do, but that was, that was how I handled that one, cause yeah, I mean, Sanna came to me at one point and she was like. Mom It's very clear to me, these weren't her exact words, but she's like, it's, it's very clear to me that There are kids in my class who are not having the same conversations we are having at home. And You know, I was just, that's like what sparked it for me. I was like, oh yeah, that is true. And that's because most people don't know how to have these conversations. And so how, what, what can I do to like help that affects that in the best way possible. Here, I'm going to give some material to start. These parents are able to have some conversations. And I mean, when it comes to how I talked to her about that, I'm just straight up like every other.
Everyone is raised in a very different household, and has different beliefs, and what we believe and how we live is true for us is not true for everybody. And I think I'm really planting that. Understanding that there are diverse opinions in the world and perspectives in the world. At a young age is important. And being interfacing with difference is not necessarily going to change how I feel. It might though, sometimes it does, and we really advocate for curiosity. Like, oh, why do you think that way? I'm curious why you, why you believe that or why you're not. Talking about that. You know, I think it really, when it comes to the parent level, like, it really depends on how close you are with the parents.
You know, I mean, I have some friends in our community who Don't necessarily approach this stuff the same way I do. And as we've gotten to know each other better, and we've had more conversations, you know, there are actually, there have been some conversations that I've had with some moms where they're like, oh, yeah, maybe I should be having that conversation with my kid earlier. And it's not like I'm telling them that they should. I'm just being myself and talking to them as a friend and sharing what's true for me. And It is kind of turning some light bulbs on for some people sometimes, and some people just kind of like, don't respond and like, okay, crazy lady, whatever, you know, I get the gamut of reactions and responses to how I am and who I am, whatever, that's fine, that's to be expected. I don't need everybody to think like me. But yeah, I think just being open and being friends with people, really, like being willing to talk to other people is important.
Laura: Okay, I have another question for you. I feel, and that I do want to respect your time cause I feel like I've been talking your ear off a little bit, but, so the like the next thing I wanted to like, so I guessI think that we have very few rites of passage left in our in our growing up, through our, you know, our childhood and teen years, I would love to have my children have a right of passage around their first menstruation. I have gotten the feedback that that would not be welcome, and they're not excited about that idea, at least one of them anyway. And I feel very curious about how to hold that in a way that respects their personhood and their individuality, and at the same time, just wanting to acknowledge a shift.
Tatiana: Yeah, yeah, I talk about this that length in the book, actually, there's like a whole part at the end all about this because you can do this really, really badly.
Laura: Really badly. I mean, I think I've, you know, it's, I, I feel like I've seen movies where things like that have happened, like, you know, where like. The mom surprises the daughter with a huge party with all of her relatives, male and female there, and it's embarrassing and the daughter hates it, and, you know, like, we don't want to handle any of these things badly, right? We want to handle these things well in a positive way. For the individual that we happen to be raising.
Tatiana: Totally. And so if your daughter says she doesn't want that, like, respect it, because here's the deal. And this is very different for boys. Boys' bodies don't initiate them. Girls' bodies initiate them.
Laura: Say, say that again and like.
Tatiana: Our bodies, our female bodies initiate us automatically. That rite of passage is inherent. It's happening. It happens because we see blood in our underwear and it's scary, and it's something that we have to move through. And then all of a sudden we have this changed body that we have to learn to adapt to. That in and of itself is a rite of passage. And so marking it. Is valuable and beautiful. And there's a reason for that. And there's lots of different ways to mark that. I do believe that. One of the things that comes with that is more responsibility, because greater capacity is also coming. And so much of it comes down to knowing your child, and how they are going to respond. It can be as simple. You know, I share one story in the book that a friend of mine shared with me when she got her period.
She was at her aunt's house with her cousin, and her aunt just opened a bottle of wine and poured them all a glass, and they sat down and shared some stories. And for her, that was her rite of passage marking, and it was beautiful and it was perfect and it was exactly what she needed. And so like If you're like me and you like to do the elaborate ceremonial thing, like I totally overdid it for my child. I completely overdid it for her because I needed to be the mom who did that. And so this is again, I talk about this a lot in the book like. Having and maybe maybe Laura, we should do something like this here, like a menarche reclamation ceremony here for those of us who wish we had something like that, but not, being able to have a place where you can go and have that little girl in you honored is really important. So that you're not like putting that on your kid.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's part of conscious parenting, recognizing, right, what you need for yourself versus what you're doing for your kid, you know, what you're doing for, for you versus for them. And I love that idea of holding a space for yourself, you know, kind of reclaiming that, that rite of passage that maybe we didn't get. I have had experiences, luckily. In doing that, for those rites of passage that I didn't get full support in, in moving through, I feel very lucky to have had those, um, definitely would be happy to, you know, form a, you know, work with you to, to hold that space for other people in our community, who would want to do that too. I feel so I, I think, I think that it's really good advice. I think that the kind of knowing your kid and maybe even talking about what they would want to look like ahead of time, you know, and and knowing, do you.
Tatiana: I mean, and maybe they won't know too.
Laura: They don't know what they don't know. They don't know what they don't know, right?
Tatiana: And so there's that too. I think, yes, talking to them about what they want is really powerful and important and really honoring their choice because it can feel like too much of a thing when we start to bleed. It's a lot. It's a huge change. And it can be scary. Like there's a lot of feelings that can come with it. And I think just the more the the more that we can really surround it with beauty and honoring. Of the beauty that it is. It is a gift and acknowledging that, and your daughter might just need that to be real gentle. You know, there's other children, um, Like one of my elders, she had a young girl come to her and ask for a ceremony, and she wanted to be put up on the hill by herself in the woods and have a fire held for her around the clock. And and she did that. And I do think that those kind of wilderness rites of passages are very powerful and very important for our young people to get to meet themselves in nature. There is no better teacher in my mind than the natural world, than the wild. And because that is kind of a wild part of us still.
Laura: We are wild, we are, yeah.
Tatiana: And as women, the part of it, like when we bleed like that, is still us connected to our wildness, which is part of why it's so disavowed in our culture because we've completely disavowed the wild. We're we're gobbling it up left and right, you know, we're trying to stomp out, we're trying to sterilize the world, and the wild has very few places where it can still thrive and be. And as women, we have this inherent ability to rewild ourselves because our bodies go through this. And because of that, putting our daughters in a natural wild setting to meet that part of themselves, I believe is one of the best things we can do for them.
Laura: Oh. Yeah, and, and we, we have to accept where our daughters are, right?
Tatiana: Yeah, and like maybe that looks like you and her going out on a camping, somewhere that's not like car camping, you know, going backpacking, going somewhere where you actually have to put all your stuff on your back and you have to set up your home and you have to cook on the fire, and you, you're out and it's quiet, you know, like, even just that. And it's just the two of you, or or you and an auntie that she loves and respects who's been through this. You can create something beautiful and powerful for her without making it a big thing to do.
Laura: I like that. I like that invitation to be creative and open. And not get caught up in what it's supposed to look like, being making something that is unique to the unique child that You are walking alongside.
Tatiana: Totally. And I believe that every unique child would benefit from some time in the wild.
Laura: Yes, I think I mean, I think we all benefit from some time in the wild. I you and I are definitely aligned on that for sure. Oh, Tatiana, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I still appreciate your willingness to put this work out into the world, so that we can have more community around this topic for our girls. I just want to make sure everybody knows how to find you and connect with you.
Tatiana: Yeah, so I'm on Instagram at path to puberty with the number 2. And they can go to my website, pathtopuberty.com. That's where you can find the book. When you buy a physical copy, you also get the ebook and audiobook. It's also on Amazon, but 10% of what I make goes to my elders, who help me to have the information for this book. And so when you buy it through the website, more money goes to them.
Laura: That's always good. And I'm just curious about, like, so as if folks who are listening and who read your book realize, wow, I have some work to do. I have some things to do to move through my own stories, maybe my birth stories. Are you a person that they can reach out to to do some of that work with?
Tatiana: 100%. That's what my mothering is for a spiritual path container is for. And yeah, those birth stories, man, they impact our parenting in ways we might not even realize. because we've, we've normalized birth trauma too as a culture and how that impacts our parenting, is actually really huge.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, okay. So beautiful, sweet listener, if you need support, find your healers and find your teachers, that it's possible that Tatiana might be that person for you.
Tatiana: Thank you so much for having me, Laura. This is a really lovely conversation. I really appreciate it. Yeah, being able to come and do this together.
Laura: Oh, same, it's so good to see you and to have you here. Thank you.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!