Episode 185: The Yoga of Parenting with Sarah Ezrin
/In this podcast episode, we dive into how yoga and parenting are related. Our guest for this episode is Sarah Ezrin, a world-renowned yoga educator, content creator, mama of 2, and the award-winning author of The Yoga of Parenting.
In this episode, Sarah and I discuss the following:
How parenting and yoga are related
Principles of presence and “being” in parenting
How yogic principles can help regulate stress for both parents and children
Self-care and its importance for parents
How to stay connected with your intuition when bombarded with external noise
To connect directly with Sarah, you can visit her website sarahezrinyoga.com. Also, follow her on Instagram @sarahezrinyoga, Tiktok @sarahezrin, LinkedIn @sarahezrin and Facebook @sarahezrinyoga.
Resources:
Remember, by embracing presence, practicing self-care, and staying connected with your intuition, you can create a harmonious and balanced environment for both yourself and your children.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, this is Doctor Laura Froyen. And on this week's episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast, we are going to be talking all about how yoga and parenting are related and how we can use the practice of yoga to become more grounded, connected and joyful in our parenting. To help me with this topic. I am bringing in Sarah Ezrin. She is a world renowned yoga educator, content creator, mama of two, I think, right?
Sarah: Yes.
Laura: And the award winning author of the Yoga of Parenting, a beautiful book that I have really been enjoying reading and I'm so excited to dive into with Sarah. So Sarah, welcome to the show. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do and then we'll dive in.
Sarah: Well, I just wanna first say thank you for having me as I told you, like in the green room that I've been a big fan of yours from the sidelines and like, feel like we're friends even though this is like the official beginning of our friendship. So I just so appreciate how you show up in the world and how you share so generously all of your wisdom and your learning. So thank you for having me. Thank you.
Laura: I appreciate you coming in too. It's so wonderful that we get to create a community of like minded folks and support, you know, our listeners. So thank you for being here.
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's just, it's funny how alone you can feel as a parent, right? Even though even though we do have these resources at our fingertips, I think we just forget that there are those accesses out there, those access points. So I love how readily available you make it on your Instagram and, and now with the podcast and everything. So I'm just lobbing the thank you back. I'm Sarah Ezra. Yeah, I have been in the yoga space for 25 years. You can do the math. I started when I was 2019 actually. And and I've always always been enthralled with psychology. I studied psychology in my undergrad. I started studying in master, my master's in MFT. But then my mom got sick with lung cancer and unfortunately, life took different paths. But I've always just been fascinated about the intersection between the two worlds and what, you know, when I started teaching, I started yoga 2001, I started teaching in 2008. There, the mind body connection wasn't really as under as, as accepted as it is today. Of course, it was understood like you read any yogic text and it was understood, but to, to have it so much a part of our vernacular and, you know, hearing your work and, you know, Dr. Gabor Mate's work and like, you know, just that, that acknowledgment that like, yes, what we're feeling is, is showing up in our body. It's just really cool to see what ancient texts had been saying for thousands of years being validated in like brain research. And, you know, more modern psychology theories.
Laura: Isn't it interesting though that we have to sometimes have what we know to be true deep within us, validated by a scientific community. Isn't that interesting how we've been, you know, it's, it's our culture, it's our society and there's nothing that, you know, right or wrong about it. But it's, it's true that we can have this wisdom, this innate, you know, innate, inherent wisdom and it feels good to have it validated, you know, but at the same time, it was always there and I think so many moms, I, I hope we get to talk about this later in our conversation. But I think so many moms are so untrusting of themselves. And I, I love just bringing that thought in that we do have this innate wisdom and yes, it feels good to have it confirmed and there's also room for trusting, you know, trusting your inner wisdom.
Sarah: I mean, I do also think obviously we're in North America, right? Are you in Canada? Yeah, you're a North American. I was like, well, that's all the same. I am Canadian too. I'm so sorry. I, I'm like, I am Canadian. I do know I've seen a map. But, yeah. All right. I just had like a, you know, mom, brain, brain freeze. I do definitely think in our, our part of the world that kind of patriarchal of the expert on top, usually a white man and then everybody has to listen underneath and, and it is, it's like this removal from the innate feminine from the intuition from when we look at more tribal cultures and collectivist cultures, how there is that much more, you know, not only tapping into the social structure, tapping into nature and tapping into the cycles of what happening outside of us. So there is absolutely a huge disconnect in the West. And something I will say is like, even though it's cool to see it validated is like, and that's kind of given like some more clout to, you know, writers like myself and people that are translating the wisdom text or you know, I'm not translating anything but I'm, I'm correlating them, you know, to modern stuff. I like, no, I'm not a Sanri researcher. Is that I think that the mainstream is more accepting of it, but it also is like kind of hidden behind like, well, we've known this forever, you know, it's like wink, wink, nothing's new. I didn't need this to be validated.
I did need the veil of my conditioning and the training of like, you must listen to this person, you must listen to this doctor. And, and again, like, I'm all for western medicine. I think there's a place but I, I think especially as parents and especially as moms, there is a deeper knowing that sometimes we go against what a quote unquote expert says and practices like yoga and meditation, which I, I really are the same thing. It's just, you know, that's another understand people think there are two separate things. They are the same thing, you know, meditations under yoga. That, that will bring you back to that and, and that truth so that if you are in a room and you've got something going on, for example, we have something behaviorally going on with one of my sons and, you know, I'm, I'm being redirected to experts even though there's an expert and my husband's very much like, oh, but it's an expert. You know, there's like a doctor and, and I'm like, no, no, I don't. That's not what my tummy is telling me. So how do you get connect to that message and how are you able to stand strong in the face of a partner that maybe is a little more in mainstream, a whole system that is leaning towards that? We just went on a total.
Laura: No, I love these tangents, I mean. but the truth is, is that so many of us as moms were raised as girls in a society that told us to stop trusting our gut from the very beginning. Right? So, yes, okay. Let's let's bring it into the yoga of parenting. I, when I heard the title of your book, I was so intrigued. I yoga is a place where I go to be in my body to be really in the present moment, really kind of deliciously within myself. Feels good in my body, but it also feels good in my mind and my heart and my soul. I happened to be in an in in a college town. So most of the yoga studios around me are like hot athletic yoga which is a very different experience than what I'm going for. So I found myself doing a lot of yoga at home since I moved here to Madison, Wisconsin. Because I'm going for, I'm going for the, the mindfulness aspect of it. But when I heard the title of your book, I, I was like, yes, that makes so much sense. But I want for the, for the, you know, the listener who maybe doesn't really understand what yoga and parenting might have to do with each other. Can you talk to me a little bit about, about this? Because what does the yoga of parenting mean? And how are they connected and relate it?
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. It's such a great question and it's, it, I think, you know, it goes back again to this idea, these, over cultures of how we view things in, in this. I mean, it's not, it's like, it's, it's all the world these days. Right. That is like, very fast moving and everything should be intense and, you know, everything, like quick results. Right. Unfortunately, it's not just the, the western world, but I'm gonna say that very, very, very generally, obviously. You know what the West thinks of, of yoga is the exercise portion of it, even the slower versions of it, it it always correlates it to some kind of movement practice. But asana, which is the movement portion of it is the tiniest little sliver of the whole big picture. So I said earlier meditation is yoga. Yoga is the umbrella and then underneath it are a number of contemplative practices, all of which are designed to get you in touch with that deeper self, little s and self as in a higher power, if you happen to ascribe to one and again, like that can just be nature, right? So this includes meditation. It includes karmic service. So I just did a talk over the weekend and I was like, has anybody made a donation? Right? And it's like we've all done yoga in that sense. Has anybody do any of you go to spiritual functions where you're singing as part of a crowd, right? Like the yoga tradition with Kirtan, I'm, I was raised in the Jewish faith we sing in temple.
Like that's, that is a yogic practice, that prayer and mantra, right? Which is like, you know, singing to the divine. That's all the practice. Movement is just a tiny, tiny, tiny sliver of it. So when you look at like what all these different types of yoga are, then you start to see like, well, what's the unifying piece to it? And you know, I I don't even say that as a pun because that is the pun, the pun is unity and unification that every single piece of yoga. And by the way, yoga, the word like like lowercase Y also sometimes is used to describe a mathematics sum like in just in language like that's yoga, right? So we're looking at all these things, it's like connecting to the divine, connecting to yourself, connecting to your breath, connecting to one another. I'm like, oh it's connection, it's unification. So if that's the case, if that's what big umbrella yoga is, are we not doing that when we are breastfeeding? If we're able to and deeply enthralled at that moment or having dance party and the rest of the world fades away, you know, with our kids in the kitchen, are we not in that when we have a behaviorally or neurodivergent child who was, you know, needing us to become ensconced? And you gave me that word earlier. I love that. I forgot that word. I'm like, I haven't used that in so long ensconced in focus. Right. And, and just 100% and fully with them. All of those are moments of yoga.
Laura: Interesting. Okay. And so tell me a little bit then about how we can use that level of, of presence and being to make parenting. It's not easier, maybe more enjoyable because things don't have to be easy for them to be enjoyable. Right? So, what to, to help us in, in this role, this role that can be quite difficult. How do you see parents using those principles? And maybe what are some of the principles that you think we need to know about in order to practice being with our kids and being in this parenting role in this way?
Sarah: It's such a great question and like the subtitle of the book, right? One of the, there's like three things that's like to help you stay grounded, to connect with your kids, but also to be kind to yourself like that was, and my original title for the book was The Perfectly Imperfect Parent. And I still, you know, stand by that kind of view because, and, and that's what the yoga practice has always taught me. It's like show up, do the best that you can and then let go of the results of it. So there is that there's that right where it's like you are, you're doing the best that you can in this moment, but you're not attaching to the results of any of it. You actually had a great post a while ago about that. About conscious parenting is not showing up to change a behavior. Conscious parenting is shown up. It's the connection. It's, it's the, it's the experience and the interaction. It's not about what the results of that.
Laura: It's not a means to the, to an end. That's the end in and of itself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, you open your book with a great quote from one of my favorite writers. L.R.Knost on this piece, can I read it? I've never read this out loud on on the podcast before. But I, I read it to myself often because, you know, when you just find words that bring truth into your heart, it's good to read them over and over again, you know. But I, I love that you opened your book this way. So here it is. Parenting has nothing to do with perfection. Perfection isn't even the goal, not for us, not for our children, learning to live well together in an imperfect world, loving each other despite or even because of our imperfections and growing as humans while we grow our little humans. Those are the goals of gentle parenting. So don't ask yourself at the end of the day if you did everything right? Ask yourself what you learned and how well you loved and then grow from your answer. That is perfect parenting. So that's from L.R.Knost, The Gentle Parent. And I love that you brought in. I think that so many folks who are authors themselves are afraid to bring in the wisdom of other teachers, but.
Sarah: Oh no, that’s like my jam.
Laura: I know, right? Me, too.
Sarah: Do you highlight, I highlight the quotes within the quotes within the quotes and like, that's like, no way. I'm like, please like we got, we stand on the shoulders of these teachers, right?
Laura: I mean that a yoga position anyway too, right? Is to acknowledge our teachers. Yes. So tell me then. So what, you know, what are some of the practices that we as parents can do and how will they help us?
Sarah: Yeah. So you know, if we're gonna, this is, it seems like we're going into non attachment, right? Which is, which is always that's one of the many principles in the book. There's 10 principles in the book. One is breath and energy management and you know, letting our challenges be struggles. What we're talking about right now to me feels like non attachment. It's like that ability to show up and like, let it go, right? So that we, we know that like we are always doing our best. Like I told you before the chat too, I'm very into the reconnected right now, which is these two gals out of Australia. And they have a saying which is like, if we could, we would and when we can, we will. And, and that's, and they, they teach us in our parenting course. And that's like, I'm like, oh, that's yoga right there. If we could, we would and when we can, we will, it's that trust that in every moment, even in our most depleted and exhausted and overrun and stressed out and reactive, that's the best that we can in that moment. And we have to trust that and that doesn't mean we can't come back and repair. It doesn't mean we can't do better next time. It doesn't mean we can't learn, but it's always trusting that we are showing up wholeheartedly. You know, and, and again, we could, you know, maybe we could be a little less yelly, maybe I could be a little less snappy next time.
But like, you know, it's, it's also being kind to yourself. So that's, that's like the, the, you know, that very yogic view, trusting that you're always showing up. And the best way to learn that is through observation, it's through, I, I like my favorite television show in the whole wide world when they're not climbing all over me is to sit back and to just watch what's happening in front of me. That and that's a really hard lesson for people. Like, especially I'm an, A type, I'm like, nope, you gotta do it this way. Like, I, like, I'm like, God, you know, when they're excruciatingly slow to do something and I'm like, I just put the gloves on, you know, like it's, there's parts of it that you watch what comes up in you, but it's also this idea of just accepting what's happening in front of you for all of the glorious mess and beauty and, and difficulty and excitement and challenge. I mean, that's what you said earlier too, right? It's like, how do we make parenting enjoyable? Well, we don't, we learn to be in the full, the full array of all the amazing emotions and we learn to welcome them as they are. It doesn't mean we need to enjoy it, right? It doesn't. And, and I want to be clear too because I know in your, in your space and in the yogic space there's toxic positivity and that's not what I'm saying. Like if you're sad and uncomfortable, yeah.
Laura: It's so funny. Even that word, I think probably means something quite different to different people enjoy. So there, there is a space where I am very much suffering through struggles with my kids. And there are times where I'm very much enjoying the struggles with my kids. There is times where if I'm not in the right mindset, it's, it's suffering versus moments where I'm able to see the beauty in their growth as human beings, even as we're having a hard time with each other. So from, I mean, yeah, even that mindset piece of it and that is the non attachment piece, right? So shooting the, you know, this should be easy. They should be able to put their boots on by now. They should be able to like, why is it every single morning we fight to get out of the car every single night, they have to brush their teeth. Why are they surprised by this? You know, like, why are we fighting about that? You know, when we have, we're in that resistance versus this is how it is. This is what's happening tonight. You know, and, and here we are, and they're learning something powerful about caring for themselves, you know?
Sarah: There's a meditation technique we talk about in the book that um I borrowed from a, an ancient text called the Vigna by Rava.
Laura: Hold on, hold on just a second. You cut out for just oh sorry. Okay. Say that again about the ancient text.
Sarah: So there's, there's a meditation techniques from an ancient Toric text and normally, when not normally because they, there's like, that's not the right word. But again, another misconception. And is that in meditation, we wipe our mind out and we don't think about anything. And that's like if you have any of your senses, working some information is coming through. So this meditation technique, it's really interesting because the tantric philosophy is all about like finding your enlightenment, if you will but being a part of the world, you know, there's so many like aesthetic practices and spiritual practices where it's like, you know, you become a monk and you move away and, and you go live in a cave and like, sure, you know, I'm sure you can, you can meditate all day. That's much easier. But what we're doing, which is living in the world and being a part of it is a little more challenging, you know, not to say that's a good bear. But the, the point being, how do we use that as fodder, how do we use that as material?
So the observation game of like watching your children is going to be made easier if you do short practices with yourself where you just sit and you just let your mind wander literally like that is the meditation. It's not like trying to count your breath. It's not like, you know, listening to sound, you're not giving it any direction. You are literally letting it just go and fly free. And it's kind of amazing where it goes. But at a certain point where it feels you are being taken for a ride suddenly, you realize that you were actually sitting, you're still being taken for a ride for sure. The the the mind is take, choosing the directions. But you're much more like seated in the back that there's often an analogy of like a charioteer and, and being driven by horse versus the horses being the mind and the senses. So it's like, it's opposed to just being on the horse and being completely out of control. Suddenly you're like, oh, wait. Nope. Nope. I'm sitting in the chariot. I'm actually, oh, I have a little bit more agency here and you just become the observer, there's a separation that, that can happen and then you're able to have that just a little bit of space. It's like a microsecond of space when they're not putting their boots on and when they're freaking out about getting in the car and it doesn't make it easier again, it's just some days you'll have a little bit more of that kind of, okay, I'm sitting back as opposed to being swept up by this.
Laura: Yes, that space and I love that you're bringing this in that this is we're learning to do this in the real world, right? Not in a quiet, glad, you know, glade out in beautiful nature. Sure. Practice doing it there, too. But I like that you're talking about this as a, as a practice as something that you do outside of the moment so that you have access to the skill inside of the moment so that you're building capacity, right? You know, because when, if someone were to set out to run a marathon, they wouldn't just go and do it without training, right? They would train, they would build up, they'd work their muscles, they build capacity so that they had access to resources in the mo you know, in the moment when they needed them. And so how much do we need to be doing this? Because I think that this is a thing that, you know, we've, I've talked about this a lot on the podcast with various guests who teach mindfulness and meditation. But I think consistently, people are very intimidated by the idea of engaging in a mindfulness practice or in a meditation practice because of those misconceptions and because of what they perceive to be the time investment that's needed. What, how, what does that look like in terms of like, how much do we need to be doing this in order to see the benefit in getting that little, that little space in the moment when our kids are refusing to put their boots on.
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, the, the observation practice is not something you're doing when they're trying to put their boots on. You know what I mean? Like that's the time like.
Laura: No, I meant, the, I meant, the chariot practice.
Sarah: I know, I know, I don't know, I'm teasing, but I I just want to be clear, right? Like, like you observe, like you said, you're building up your reserves, you're practicing your muscle memory, you're practicing your awareness memory. So, you know, there, there's been lots of different tests and studies about like, should it be 20 minutes? Should it be 15 minutes? Can? And recently there's been some, some information coming out that like, as short as a one minute of stillness can have a huge impact on your day. And one of the practices in the book is that it, it's, it's about breathing for one minute every hour and you don't even have to do that. Like, it's like, I know that sounds overwhelming. It's literally just set an alarm at 4:20 you know, or whatever. And then for that one minute breathe once a day and then that you'll start to become more aware and you'll be like looking forward for your breath break and then, you know, you'll maybe you'll set one at 1 p.m. and then suddenly you have more throughout the day, but just that one minute of stillness and one minute is a long time, like one minute sounds really fast.
But like if you've ever been late for a zoom and you got, you're like in the other room and then somehow you're like, get all these things done like time is so relative, right? And we really can and, and the other cool thing about meditation and this is you just have to practice and trust the people that practice who tell you this. But when the more you do it time time becomes different, your perception of time is very different. You can stretch time, you can shorten time. Like it's like you become a little bit of a time bender and I I know that sounds a little woo woo. But it, it's just, it's just the way perception works. I think it's because we're not rushing. We're not, you know, when we have those moments of pause, our nervous system can settle. Things just become more spacious. We're not just like adrenalizing our way through everything. So it's like, yeah, I mean, the joke always is like, you know, you, you only have 10 minutes to meditate, you should meditate for an hour. But like obviously, you know what parent has that, but one minute, two minutes, 3, 5 is gonna make a huge impact.
Laura: I like to think of it as micro dosing, right? So that, I mean, micro dosing is having a moment with micro dose with, with mindfulness, like.
Sarah: Microdose meditation.
Laura: Yes, I like it. I'm really glad you brought in the nervous system. I feel like the nervous system is also having a moment. And I think that very many of the parents I have the the privilege of walking alongside are experiencing heightened stress, kind of consistent high levels of their nervous systems kind of being turned on. And I'm curious about how you see the role of kind of maybe yogic principles like, you know, have to play and helping us learn how to turn our nervous systems off or reset or kind of complete that stress response cycle. What role that has for our kids? How and, and how do we do that. How do we tap into? I'm kind of switching off some of that fight flight freeze response and getting into more grounded and safe and social state.
Sarah: Yeah, I love that you said like letting the cycle complete because I do think that there's a lot of pressure out there, especially in parenting circles to like switch into a place of calm and then only be calm. But like we forget that we are animals, right? We, we do have very primal responses. We have the lower brain, like we are going to have these responses. The question is, where do you go from there? How do you get back to calm? So, I mean, with the heightened states, right? Like if we think about the calm is like the earth and the heightened states are like up in the sky, right? And that's like fight or flight. But then you have those lower, the down regulated states too, which is freeze and fawn. So we're constantly toggling between all of those. And it's like, how are we getting ourselves back up to balance? Well, yoga is chock full of practices that can bring you either higher, lower, or to the balance place. That's the pool of things.
Laura: I love that you're talking about this because I feel like hardly any. We, we hear so much about down regulating, all about up regulating. And the fact is that many of us spend much of our days numbed out. You know, and, and that, and we're, we're down and we actually need some up regulating and that's what regulation is. Regulation is not being able to calm yourself down. Regulation is being able to move your energy to meet the demands of the situation that you're in and sometimes you need to move up, you need to operate this too. I love that you're talking about this. Okay.
Sarah: So, so, so let's say let's go back to the couch example.
Laura: Can we be nerds together?
Sarah: No, I love it. I love it. I told you, I'm like, I've just gone, like, I've gone over the deep end. I'm like, reading every research paper. I'm like, let's use that psychology degree. So let's say, you know, you are sitting on the couch and you're observing, but you're observing because you're frozen and you're like, I don't know how to respond to this situation that it's not a conscious decision to observe that it's more like a, you know, just I'm stuck here. I just want, I'm just scrolling on my phone. I can't handle the mess. I can't, you know, it's that overwhelmed, that's a down regulated place that's freeze, right? So the best thing for someone is going to be something that's a little bit more uplifting. So that can be like movement in yoga. It can be like a faster kind of chant if you're into that or just like, you know, fun, like pop music, top forties.
Laura: Dance party.
Sarah: Exactly. You know, we say in yoga that the sides of the body correlate to different energy. So we talk about like right nostril breathing as being very energizing. Our right is our sun channel. So, you know, and don't just like do it based on what I'm saying, you can Google it, Surya Vandana and you know, it's just about breathing through the right, but something that's up, right, that's going to make you feel better and sometimes honestly, it might be a little bit of coffee. It might be a little bit of tea for that person. I am just naturally high energy and anxious. So even when I'm frozen, my heart rate is like, still. So it's like I'm frozen. But I'm like, so I'm like, no, maybe I'm not the candidate for the coffee. But if you know, some of us do need that little bit of a jolt to come back to that more even place, right. That more curious and, and, you know, with that ventral bagel as they call it now, if you're up here, right, if you're like way up here and all over and running around and you're like fighting everybody that honks at you or, you know, wanting to leave and go book into a hotel, which I had many of that yesterday afternoon. Like that's gonna be more of your fight and flight responses, then you do probably need some more down regulating practices, right? And, and in yoga that's gonna be movement, that's slower. That's a little bit closer to the floor. We talked in the beginning.
You were talking about the different classes that are offered. Well, there's benefit right to the fast moving ones if you're in like a lower energy kind of place and you're a little more slow moving. But if you're, if you're already upregulated, which most of us are because we're in a 24 hour news cycle and the world is, you know, where it's 2024. Like, you know, we're still recovering. We're, we're not nowhere near recovered from COVID and all the shutdowns, then we are gonna need something that's gonna be more grounding. So that's like slower moving, more like restoratives where you're all padded up with like a bunch of pillows and breathing, breathing through the left side of the nostril, slower breaths. But it's, I think it's learning. It's, it's again like, so that's like if you were starting your observation practice and you're sitting on the couch and you're like jittery and like wanting to jump in, that's, that's an indicator, you know, maybe, maybe let's do some grounding breaths first.
Laura: And I love that you're talking about this observation, not just observe, like observing what's happening outside of you with your kids, which I think is an amazing practice just for getting to know your children, getting to know what's going on for them, but also observing yourself in relation to them and how that is for you and noticing that if it's really hard for you to sit with and, and observe your children without moving to go wash the dishes or, you know, picking up your phone, like, you know, just really observing yourself non judgmentally, you know, with lots of acceptance and love and just curiosity and if it's, that's hard. Right.
Sarah: I, I actually, I wanna share something real quick and I, I love that because like, to me this is the, this is the fodder, right? Like this is, this is the cool part of parenting. I can't control them. They're gonna, I mean, I can set healthy limits and, you know, provide. But, you know, ultimately it's, it's, it's maddening to, to try to like, go in and change things, right? Like, all I can really do is work on myself. But something I realized recently with all my nervous system study is like, in high school, at least I always was like, quite a fighter, like high school and early twenties, my reactions were very much like, go forward, go into it, do yelling and, you know, just, just was, that's who I was. And I identified myself like that for a long time recently I realized, oh, no, I'm flight because I'm constantly on the go, I'm never in the present moment, I'm constantly cleaning. I'm constantly hustling, I'm constantly reading and I realize like, oh, that's actually like avoiding what's going on. That's more of like a flight response. So, like, very kindly acknowledging that I'm not like, you know, if this was my twenties I'd probably be like, oh, great. Like another thing we're going to work on. But, you know, now I'm like, 42 I'm like, all right, let's do this. Like,, so I need to work with, like, putting my phone down more and it's just cool. I think it's just, it's just fun to get to know yourself in these different ways and to know that we change. And so it's constantly checking back in change as our children change. And it's just, it's what keeps life interesting, you know.
Laura: And so it's never done, right?
Sarah: It's never done, never ever. Which I know it can sound daunting but like is actually kind of the coolest part. Like, can you imagine?
Laura: Oh my God, I agree. I mean, so I know it does sound, it does sound daunting or perhaps overwhelming. But like when you reframe it from a place of that means we get to continue to know ourselves and learn about ourselves our whole lives. But, you know, human development happens across the lifespan, right? So we on this podcast, we spend a lot of time talking about what's happening in the early years. But human development happens across the lifespan, our brain, our bodies raw, always constantly changing and growing alongside our children. And that I feel is quite exciting to be able to think that none of this is set in stone. We always have new opportunities and new things to learn. That feels really, really exciting to me.
Sarah: Yeah. And like to go back to the science of it, like we can change our genes, you know, like we always thought that things were just, this is how it is and this is how it's going to be. But no, everything is changed. And that's actually another big principle in yoga is that what we see outside of ourselves, these bodies, you know, there's everything that we consider nature, which is, you know, the table in front of me, my cup, my body is, is always changing. But there is something that's, that's a steady thread throughout and that's what we're always trying to kind of anchor back into whether that's love or, you know, if you, if you believe in a higher power, it's that soul, right? There's just, there, there is a steady thread throughout, but everything else is just moving and changing all the time. So let's go for the ride of it and enjoy it instead of like constantly paddling, you know, upstream.
Laura: Okay. So do you see some of these things? I've, I've been having a really, like lots of really interesting internal conversations about the phrase self care in my, in my brain lately, I feel like you're an ideal person to talk about it with this is, you know, so the job that I have is quite lonely at times and I'm sure you feel that yourself because we, we sit in our offices, we don't really have colleagues. You know, we're not in a, we're not in a building where we're, you know, we're talking about this. You know, I have a couple of friends that I connect with on Voxer or text message, but there's not very many opportunities to think things through. Right? So I've been thinking a lot about self care and kind of what it looks like on this kind of more superficial level and then what it looks like on this deeper level and what I feel like we've been talking about is really good self care. Do you agree? Like, how do you feel about that word and how like what it means and what it should, what we need it to mean as parents.
Sarah: I think we're just such binary thinkers that we're like self care must mean this one thing. And then, you know, and, but it is, it's like you say, it's very gray and I have to refer to another author and another psychiatrist Dr. Pojaa Lakshmin, who just recently wrote Real Self Care. I don't know if you got to read that one yet. And the she's differentiating between, well, is it, you know, this is a bubble bath that's like what she calls faux self care, right? Is that, that's like the marketed, you know, commoditized, is that the word commoditized self care? But the, but the value system of, I need to step away right now. I need to take time for myself. So I am, I had an incident yesterday where I had to get my nails done because I'm going on a trip and I had zero time to do it. And I needed someone in the family to step up for something and they like, couldn't understand how I, I, I was asking for them to step in for something that seemed as frivolous as getting my nails done.
But in my mind that time was first I, I looking down and having my nails not done was like, you know, its own thing. It had been weeks. I, I, it just, it was something I needed to do before my trip. It was a choice. It wasn't then getting the nails done. It was the unapologetically knowing that I needed that time yesterday and taking it even with other people's discomfort, you know, and disapproval. So I think that they, like, self care gets masked behind these things that we sell. But really it's how are we doing it? It's not the shower, it's the unapologetic going and taking of the shower. Right. It's not the, like, girls weekend or whatever, you know, which isn't, it's never enough. One week is never enough. It's the tiny things we do every day. I don't know. That's how I.
Laura: Yeah. And, and the, how we're engaging with it, you know, and that's why I think sitting and observing your kid can absolutely be self care. It can be nourishing and enjoyable and enlightening and, and I mean, definitely a mindfulness practice. And so I, I really, I like that. I like what you're teaching here is that, that there is so much about the need to reconnect with ourselves, to define things for ourselves and allowing that to, to be okay. I think that there is a lot of external noise in parenting. I'd like to kind of, you know, as we wrap up our time together circle back to what we were talking about in the beginning, this kind of internal wisdom, this inner knowing that we have and we live in a world where we are bombarded by these, you know, five tips and scripts, you know, to say to your kid the next time they're having a meltdown and, and I think that those things are great, there's a place for them, but they also take us away from our intuition. And so I'm kind of curious about how you can stay connected to yourself, to your inner knowing, when we're, we are bombarded on so many levels by different sources of information, different ideas of how things should be going.
Sarah: Yeah, I, I mean, I think that the contemplative time has to be the pregame to handle the, the quiet time for you. And I don't mean that you have to like sit in meditation for an hour. It could be like going for a run. It could be that bath, right? It's like, but that time, it could be dancing, it could be singing that time to connect to yourself. So whatever your yoga practice may be, that's going to be the pregame to be able to weed through a lot of the noise because when we're not nourished and we're not full, then we are very reactive and we are in that like, you know, upregulated place where we're bouncing all over the place and, you know, not, you know, following this person wanting to run away or we're completely frozen and, and unsure what to do. So I think that's the starting place really is what are the tiny things that you're doing for yourself throughout the day that are those moments to be quiet and again, remember quiet like, I it doesn't mean there's no music on it doesn't mean you're not moving. You know, and maybe it's the better word is stillness, right? Than quiet. But again, it's not like a physical, it's, it's that moment of connection.
So what are you doing? Yeah. And just being so that when you are scrolling and you do see something and like this is how I fell in love with all your work. I was like, yes, like it was like a guttural. Yes. You know, and you go through and you're like, absolutely. Or you're scrolling through and something seems interesting and you're like, hm. okay. Well, you know, am I interested because this person has a really good camera and a good ring light and everything looks like very white and simplistic or you know, like it's like that perfect Instagram shot. And so that's why I think I want to follow her parenting advice. Or am I following this person because there's something in my tummy that's telling me. No, this is, this is someone speaking your truth. I also think there has to be trial and error too. Like sometimes something sounds really good on paper and then we go and we apply, you know, having two kids, like they're very different. Like I, you know, it looks one thing worked for this kid. It's not working for this guy. Like, so you, you have to like, go and do some trial and error and then you feel it in your body, you know, this isn't working right now, right? You know, you know.
Laura: I think that, you know, to some of the things that have helped me learn to listen to, to that gut to my body are much lower stakes opportunities to practice that, you know. So like if I'm going to have tea, I never just go in and, you know, pick out, you know. Well, I do now because I know what I like. Right. But, but when you're learning to do this, giving yourself a couple of options and say, okay, which is the one I want and go and go with your gut, not like based on like, oh this one says it's immune supporting but just like, really like, what does my gut say? Which one do I feel like having or going into, like even target and look like looking at things and thinking about like, okay, so people chose these things, people to put the packaging on. But which one calls to me, you know, it's obvious which one I'm supposed to want because it's on eye level on this shelf. But actually which one is, is enticing to me. So learning how to fine tune some of those things. I really like low stakes stuff. I, it helps me exercise that muscle so that I have more access to it in higher stakes areas. You know, like when I'm thinking about making a decision about whether my kids gonna have their first sleepover or not, you know?
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And, and something that comes up for me is like, I often will get frozen in those situations. So I get down regulated in those situations where I get overwhelmed by shopping options and like, you know, like, and it's like, I can't handle big box stores because of that. Like, so that's something to pay attention to too is like, if you can't make any decision, that is your decision right there, that maybe that's not the day to do it or go to the Starbucks kiosk and, like, get like, you know, a shot and see if that helps any a out of espresso or whatever, whatever floats your boat and, you know, see if that can make changes or make decisions on things that feel safer for you. Like, what shirt are you gonna wear today? You know, what do you need a jacket today? Like those are, those are intuitive hits too. I just know, like, personally for me, like when you're talking about target, I'm like, oh no, no, that is very, I shut way down. Too many lights. Too much stimulation.
Laura: Interesting. Oh gosh. Isn't it delightful how different we all are?
Sarah: It's amazing. Right.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I love that. And I, I love that. They like, so I, I, I really do like the idea too that we get to be different, you know, and then we get to just learn to listen to ourselves. So I really appreciate you bringing that message out into the world. Sarah. Okay, so I want to make sure everyone knows where to find you to learn from you. So why don't you let us know again? The name of your book, your website, your handle on social media. Where can we, you know, connect with you?
Sarah: I would say I'm most active on Instagram, which is Sarah Ezrin Yoga, but I'm also on TikTok having some fun over there. And my book is The Yoga of Parenting. It's available wherever books are sold. There's an audio book which I recorded. So if you want to hear my voice for a little bit longer, that was fun. I actually really enjoyed that. And, and yeah, and then I also have a meditation course for specifically for parents. So it's these short bite meditations that it's like, you know, this one is 7 minutes. So it's, it's actually a really nice introduction and they're all parents specific. So it's like this one's for when you're feeling chaos, this one's when you need an uplift of energy. And that's found on Meditation University and it's called the Yoga of Parenting.
Laura: Okay. Will you make sure you send me the link so I can put it in the show notes?
Sarah: Yeah. Definitely.
Laura: Great. Well, thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciated our conversation and was really delightful to meet you in person.
Sarah: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you everybody for listening.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!