Episode 154: Doing the Work of Conscious Parenting with Dr. Shefali
/Ok, so we've all heard the term "conscious parenting" before, right? We've even talked about it on the show, but out there in the online world I see a LOT of people talking about it in a lot of different ways and I'm not always sure we are talking about the same thing. In my mind there is a difference between respectful, collaborative parenting (which is about HOW you interact with your kids, like the actual practices and things you say and do) and conscious parenting.
So what exactly is conscious parenting when you distill it down, and how do you put into practice day-in and day-out in your family?
That's what we are digging into this week on the podcast!
Dr. Shefali received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. Specializing in the integration of Western psychology and Eastern philosophy, she brings together the best of both worlds for her clients. She is an expert in family dynamics and personal development, teaching courses around the globe. She has written four books, three of which are New York Times best-sellers, including her two landmark books The Conscious Parent and The Awakened Family AND HER NEW BOOK:
The Parenting Map: Step-by-Step Solutions to Consciously Create the Ultimate Parent-Child Relationship
I had a chance to read an early copy of the book, and it's my favorite of hers so far! It's really practical and a great place to start if you are new to the way we are talking about conscious parenting in this episode.
Here's a summary of our conversation:
The sneaky way respectful/gentle parenting doesn't always lead to "conscious" parenting
Unconscious agenda: How to identify it with ourselves, our kids, our partner, and our lives and why we have it
The five unconscious responses parents tend to fall into, and the underlying emotion for each.
Role of self-compassion in this work
To learn more from Dr. Shefali, you can visit her website www.drshefali.com, and follow her on Facebook and Instagram.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts, and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast. This is Dr. Laura Froyen and this week we're going to be talking about conscious parenting with pretty much the person who coined the term. I'm so excited to welcome Dr. Shefali on to the show. She received her Doctorate in Psychology from Columbia University and does a beautiful job of bringing Western Psychology and Eastern Philosophy to meet and supporting parents in figuring out exactly how to show up as their full authentic selves while welcoming the full authentic self of your child too. So Dr. Shefali, welcome to the show! I'd love for you to just introduce yourself. Probably my listeners know who you are.
Dr. Shefali: Thank you. That's lovely of you. My name is Dr. Shefali. I'm a clinical psychologist and, you know, I talk about the awakening of our authentic self in all relationships, especially the parenting relationship because that's where it impacts future generations the most. So I have many books. This is my fifth book that I'm highlighting in this podcast with you. It's called The Parenting Map. It's the how-to, you know, I've given 20 steps to become the conscious parent and we can talk about, you know what that really means. But that's just my focus is how can we become our most authentic conscious beings in any relationship?
Laura: I love that. Okay. So since I have the person who coined the term here, you know, I feel like I hear the word conscious parenting and I see that hashtag in a lot of places and I'm not always entirely sure I know what other people are talking about. I think I know what it is, but I would love for you to tell us, I'm just the listener who's maybe new. What is conscious parenting?
Dr. Shefali: Well, before I start with what is conscious parenting, we have to understand what it used to be before conscious parenting. It used to be the traditional model of parenting, which is basically the parent knows best. The parent is superior. The children are here to be followed to, to follow, and to be followers. And the parent is always coming with this attitude of righteousness of absolute superiority and the child is to be fixed, the child is to be controlled, the child is in the wrong. If there's something wrong in the relationship, it's the child's fault and we have to take them to therapy to get medicated, to get fixed.
So conscious parenting debunks that whole old model and talks about no, the parent needs to look at themselves. The parent is more than half the problem. The way the parent is interacting with the child is creating a dynamic that the child has no choice but to either fight back with or disrespect or defy. But it's not the child per se. It's the parent. So conscious parenting is about parenting oneself, the person that we have to fix, the person, we have to focus on the person that we have to heal is the parent's own self, not the child.
Laura: I love that. And I think that everybody listening is probably right there with you and are the biggest struggle out there that I see in the clients that I work with is the how piece. And I'm so glad that they will have your book as a resource for figuring out that how piece of things. Is it okay with you if we dig a little bit into the book? Okay. I loved reading it. And there was this one piece that I was thinking about a lot as I was reading and I, you know, I work with a lot of families and we were talking about, sorry, your book was talking about kind of giving up the fantasy of what you thought being a parent was going to be and who you thought your child was, and letting that the child kind of be the main actor in their own movie.
And I kind of, I've been, I've been noticing and maybe you have with the families that you work with to that sometimes when people first step into the conscious parenting world and start making shifts and changes in the way they're interacting with their kids and their families that they change one fantasy for another. And I'm kind of, I would love to dig into kind of how we can notice when we're doing that because a lot of the clients know what to do and say to be respectful to their kids. But they, I think they, it seems like they have this other fantasy, this perfect mom that they're supposed to be respectful and conscious and aware and it's just another limited, limiting things. I would love your experience with that and your thoughts.
Dr. Shefali: Yeah. Beautiful. So, we have fantasies, expectations and movies, agendas of every relationship, how we show up how the other person shows up. But we don't realize that those fantasies are coming from our own upbringing, our own cultural context, our own conditioning and we think we have a right to them. Now, when we are with a partner who's off around the same age, we know we have to back off a little bit because there have been no that they came into our lives in their twenties or the thirties. So of course, they were raised in a different context.
But with our children that becomes really blurry because the only context our children have had is us. So we don't see how we're putting the fantasy. You see, because with, with another adult, we're like, yeah - Oh, you grew up in Kansas, I grew up in Milwaukee. So right there, there is an understanding that this person is coming into our space with a whole different set of conditioning. So it's not fair per se to put any of our conditioning on them. But we still try to, but we do it on steroids in the parenting journey because it's, it's our child. They, most of our children come from our bodies. They've been with us from a very, you know, from infancy. So we don't see how we're putting it on to them. We don't see how we have co-created this dynamic.
And so then once the parent says, you know, but I don't want to have any fantasies. I'm going to start talking respectfully. I'm going to start talking gently. I'm going to start talking positively. You're right. That just becomes a whole other agenda so that the parent says, okay, I'm not going to be unconscious. I'm not going to scream and yell and slap my kid like I was when I was a child, but now I'm going to do it better, but we don't see that there's still a fantasy. And so how do we know where in a fantasy mode? Any time we are attached to an outcome. Which means that whatever is happening in the business of the present moment is causing us resistance.
That's when we know we are in a fantasy. So if we're taking our child to the beach and they're having a bad day and they're struggling and they're crying and we're getting angry with them, ah, now we need to go - Why am I getting angry? It's not the child. It's me who had an expectation for this day at the beach. And I, I thought I was doing it right. I was making them happy. I had packed the sandwiches. I was in a good mood, but that's not the only part of conscious parenting. It's not just to be nice. It's to really look at how we are setting up the agenda to control the other person to match our expectations. And they are so sneaky and so subtle when it comes to children, you know, we just don't realize how controlling we are.
I often tell parents, let's not even call it parenting. Let's just call it controlling because we are while we're not now saying that I'm controlling the child. Now we're not yelling at the child. We're not punishing the child, but we're still in the mindset of a controlling agenda. So parents need to examine every day when they wake up. What is my unconscious agenda for myself, for my partner, for my children, for my nanny, for my life? Because that is setting us up on a trajectory for instant disappointment and frustration and we are not even aware of it. So beginning your day, you know, what do I expect from this day right there. We are on the wrong foot because we can never have expectations for anybody outside ourselves.
Laura: And even sometimes for ourselves, we apply this fantasy to us too.
Dr. Shefali: Yes. So then we get on the weighing machine and we're like all in a good mood, we look down and that's it. It's a bad day, right? Because we expected our body to do some magic over the night or follow our way, right? We starved all day and why we now put on weight or why is the weight not come off. It's not realizing that life is so complex. Our bodies are complex. Human beings are complex. No one is here to be a puppet, neither is our weight, right? That’s just one example. But or we write a book or you come on this podcast and now you want 10,000 listeners because you showed up life doesn't work like that. And we don't give room for that X factor called life other human beings. And then we set ourselves up for disappointment, great disappointment and resentment.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. So I always say that parenthood is a constant lesson in the art of letting go. And I think it's one of the hardest things. So when we, when we awake, awaken, when we become aware of even the subtle ways, we're applying this kind of unconscious script to our kids, to our family, to our interactions, what's the next like the very next step?
Dr. Shefali: Well, so first it's complete brutal honesty and then it's really to go deeper to ask why do I have this agenda? What do I believe this agenda will give me and typically it will give you a feeling that you are good enough and then the deeper search is why am I looking to be good enough from these metrics? From my weight, my trophy, my reviews, my followers, my child, my child's grades, my child's followers. Why am I setting life up in this way? Where, where and why am I feeling so unworthy and why have I put the power of that worth on this external X factor?
How can I reclaim my power? How can I enter my worth based? just on the fact that I'm here, that's it. You know, there's this saying that our children need to earn our trust and our approval. No, they don't and we don't need to earn our own trust and approval either. It is our right. It is our innate human right? To give ourselves worth, to give ourselves approval, and to give it to others. And that is something that can only come when we cultivate a very deep connection with ourselves. And that's what is missing in every relationship, especially the parenting relationship.
And it's because children are so innocent and so young that they actually even allow us all the leeway that they do because they need us. So because they need us and they're helpless and they cannot fight back. And because there's a storm in culture that says children need to be seen, not heard, poor children, they have no choice but to just take whatever we're saying at face value and just deal with it. And then when they become teenagers that's when the lid blows off and they begin to fight back. And instead of then appreciating that they are finally coming into their own and stepping into their own authority, we get even angrier and more upset.
Laura: Yeah, you know? So I, I've been attempting to consciously parent my kids since they were born and making lots of mistakes along the way, but it is just so delightful when I see when I get feedback from my children that I'm overstepping or that I'm being controlling because they are not afraid to tell me. And it's actually really delightful when I see them do it with my dad because my dad who was a wonderful loving father, but also had some very clear ideas about who I should turn into too when I see him doing those things.
Dr. Shefali: What you said is the key is that they feel safe. And, but that's frustrating for parents who is looking to get worth from their parenting, who needs to feel significant, who needs to feel powerful in this way that is very threatening and provoking for the parent when the child says no, I don't think so. Or you were rude to mom. You were disrespectful, right? So yesterday I walked into my daughter's room, I make this mistake every year I think. And I did her laundry because it was convenient for me. But in the process, I threw away some clothes that were clean. But of course, they were in the laundry basket.
Why was it there? I don't ask, but I shouldn't have been there. She's 20. So first, why was I going in there? Number two, why didn't I ask for permission? It's her staff. And then when she was rude I said, wow, you're so rude. And then she told me no, you were rude to even go there and touch my stuff. And then I went into martyr mode, but I was just being nice. I'm just being helpful. And she said back again because we've raised children who don't feel scared, they have a big gas mouth. Then she's well, it's not about you being nice. It's about you respecting my boundaries and I'm just going to get a lock on the door. So I was like, yeah, lock me up because I'm out of control wanting to fix everything.
So that I feel good about my life, right? I had no business going there. But I was able to handle the criticism, handle the feedback and look inside myself and find the place where she was right? She wasn't all right. But there was a place where she was making sense and that's the power of conscious parenting is to go within and because our children are not morons, they are not idiots, they're not, you know, stupid, lifeless beings who we can just put around our chess board and make the moves ourselves. So find the place within you that can own where you were wrong and find the place within you where you can own that your child from their point of view was right. It's not from your point of view, it's from their point of view. And what that does for the child is phenomenal.
It's exponential because now the child says that, Wow, I spoke up against this authority figure. I took a risk. I spoke about my mind and guess what? My parent is validating and my parent is not telling me I'm full of crap. My parent is not dissuading me or disempowering me. My parent is actually, you know, owning, honoring and celebrating me. Now that child goes out into the world because they're not gaslit. They go out into the world feeling that they have an inner power and inner knowing that is worthy to sit at the table and to express itself. So that's how we raise future adults who are not going to be people pleasers and be pushed around by everybody because we have shown them and practiced with them that it's safe for them to show up for themselves.
Laura: It's so beautiful and I just wanna tell you how lovely it is to hear about unconscious moments in your daily life. I think it's really a relief probably for a lot of people to know that there will always be those moments.
Dr. Shefali: Oh, yeah. It's not about, it's not about just like it's not about the child being perfect. It's not about you being perfect. It's about owning our blind spots. So in this book, the parenting map, I talk about five ways that we show up unconsciously, we can either show up as the fighter who's the exploder, rageful, hyperactive parent or we can show up as the fixer. That's me maybe you, where we are over, enabling, over saving, over rescuing, overdoing over parenting, then we can show up as the feener. The feener is the parent who wants everything to look good on the outside. As long as it you know, looks good on social media. Then is the freezer, the one who avoids big emotions and chaos and conflict. And then the fleer, the one who literally is absent and unable to be present period.
Laura: I love those. The five F’s and you had A’s that go with them to kind of the underlying piece that's going on and you run through those as well.
Dr. Shefali: Yes, very good. So each of the F’s that we talked about fighter fixer, a freezer and fleer are the ways we use to show up in our ego when, when we're feeling helpless. So I talk about the underlying feelings. So in this book, I teach parents first recognize your ego pattern. So it was so in my case that for the laundry moment, it was my, my fixer, my over fixer. Now what was happening underneath, right? So I talked about the five days. So for the fighter underneath some anger. For the fixer underneath there's some anxiety. I had anxiety that I could, I had to do the laundry at that moment because tomorrow was a busy day and I would not do it.
Then my kid would be angry that she would go back to school without her laundry down. So I was in the future in the what if, not the what is, which is the hallmark of anxious people. Then the feener is all about attention seeking. How will it look on the outside? The freezer is all about avoidance and the fleer is abandoning, is, has abandoned themselves so much that they do not show up at all in their fear of being abandoned. They abandoned the ship altogether.
Laura: Yeah. I felt like that section of the book was actually really hopeful and I feel like checking in with yourself on a regular basis on okay. So this interaction didn't go well, which one was I in? And what's really going on for me is such a great process. And I really appreciate the invitation to think about this as a lifelong work, that we are always going to be checking in that there will never be a moment where we've arrived. Right?
Dr. Shefali: Oh my goodness. Yes. So any time you think I'm a conscious parent, that is your ego because a conscious parent will never say that. It really conscious parent will say, oh my goodness, thank goodness. Today I was unconscious a little bit less. It is all about a process and doing it less. It's not about doing it perfectly. It's about repair, it's about ownership. It's about accountability and rebirthing. Starting again and again and again, we can only start again and again. And parents often think it's too late that they, you know, they've already messed it up.
There is no such thing as being too late. You've never messed it up fully. There's always redemption, but you have to start showing up differently. Even if your children are 30 years old, send them a text right now saying, Oh my goodness, I did not realize how controlling I am. How did you survive me? You know, and that will open up a whole new discussion, a whole new dialogue. So it's not about perfection. It's not about any goal. It's about looking in the mirror every day.
Laura: Yeah. And I feel like you also have this message that we haven't touched on yet. That's really important to me is looking in that mirror with grace and compassion for yourself too. Can you talk a little bit about the role of self compassion in this work?
Dr. Shefali: Yes, absolutely. So I'm going to actually go to step 19. I'm going to read a little bit because I think your people will really appreciate it. It's called start right now and this is what I write. It's a little poem. I look at the time gone by and I'm filled with regret and remorse. I'm consumed with guilt and shame. I keep thinking of the damage done and the moments missed and wonder how I can retrieve it all and turn back time. I want to do over a makeover another chance. But here is what I forget. Even if I got all those moments back, I would still be the same me and you would be the same you because what makes us new right now is all those moments in between.
What has transformed us to wisdom is exactly all that unwise wasted time. I could not become this without that. And this is what I failed to see that I was exactly who I needed to be back then in order to become who I am right now. Without that, there wouldn't be this. Therefore, I'm exactly at the right place right here. It is called now. And I talk about we all get caught up in obsession over the past, finding it hard to resolve things in our minds and truly move on in a transformed way. This obsession keeps us from living in the present moment, which is one of the key ingredients to parenting.
Our obsessive thoughts, take the form of three specific patterns, guilt, blame and regret. When we engage in these, we cling to what was mulling over the past again and again, our minds just cannot let go of what happened in the past. We become obsessed with how things shouldn't have been. Guilt is always self directed and says, I shouldn't have done that. Blame is always other directed and says, you shouldn't have done that. Regret is past life directed and says it should, wouldn't have happened that way. And as we keep in these patterns, we keep stuck in an unconscious resolved state, unresolved state of misery and shame.
We stay in resistance and constant turbulence. So we have to, then I teach about self compassion. I say the entire process of waking up involves an uncomfortable confrontation with the truth of our ego. The wisdom that is within you right now came about from your darkest hours. It just didn't pop into your consciousness one day, it evolved over many years and moments. So I talk about the only moment that's relevant is the one that we are in right here right now. And here is where we can rewrite our narratives and begin a new. I am who I am because of who I was.
I cannot deny my history or my past. It has made me who I am today. I will use my struggles to create compassion for myself and others. I will use my pain to create joy for myself and others. I will stop living in regret for all that I wasn't and instead embrace all that I have become right now. So this is step 19, I only have 20 steps. So this, this is at the end of this passage of time where you begin to realize that the past is no longer here, but it has made me who I am today. So what an amazing celebration and cause for great compassion, not just with ourselves, but now for all those who make mistakes in our lives.
Laura: And it's a beautiful way to frame the journey, you know that it, we couldn't have got here if we hadn't started there. And I think that's, you know, as I was, I couldn't help but thinking of some, some particular families that are close to my heart, who are in the thick of it right now for me, you know, we want to be in the here and now and it's easy to think about the past and project into the future. But it can also be kind of comforting to know that when we're in the thick of it, when we're in the midst of it, when we're going through that crucible, that fire, there is something on the other side. And we don't know what it will be, but it will be something and it will be a result of what we're doing now. And that's comforting too.
Dr. Shefali: Yes. Yes. And life is uncomfortable. You know, that's the big acceptance that, You know, our children will, will take one step forward and 10 steps back and so will we life is not this perfect dotting on a linear graph going up. It's constant messiness, chaos. This is human nature. The life we live is so stressful and overwhelming. How can we all give ourselves more grace, more expansion, more freedom to be imperfect, to be even toxic sometimes. But then to do a course correct and to be direct and to rebirth ourselves.
Laura: Yeah, it's so beautiful. I so appreciate this message that's going out into the world and we definitely need it and we definitely need kids who are raised this way. When I think about all the beautiful families who are listening and the kids that are going to go out into this world and really shake things up and change it. It makes me feel so happy and excited for, for what, what will be? I'm just curious about if they're, you know, if there's any like just as a take away, if something, if you know our listeners come away with this from this episode with just one thing, what do you think that that would be, what do you really want them to let into their heart today?
Dr. Shefali: That if you're a parent or have been with parents, you know, as a child, there is a way to transform your whole life that you can begin right now. It's never too late. And there is a method to raise your children to become more conscious, more resilient, more secure, more worthy. You mean, don't make them perfectly any such thing, but there is a way to make them more. And I believe what I write in this book, the parenting map is that guide to make, to making sure you as a parent feel empowered to work this journey in the most conscious evolved way possible.
Laura: That's beautiful. And to, they'll have their own work to do, right?
Dr. Shefali: You don't have to raise children who don't have work to do themselves. They have to, they have to figure out their own evolution. We're not creating these packages that go out into the world that are bulletproof and failure proof. We are raising input perfect human beings who will go out there and keep being imperfect. But at least let our message to them be, that they are good enough for us. And if they leave with that platform, that foundation, that is huge, many of us did not have that growing up so we can give this to our children at the very least and that is the most we should give them. That is amazing to give them.
Laura: Yes, I'm right there with you. I love it. Thank you so much Dr. Shefali for being with us and sharing your, your book, and your wisdom with us. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Shefali: Thank you for having me.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
And if you're listening, grab a screenshot and tag me on Instagram so that I can give you a shout-out, and definitely go follow me on Instagram. I'm @laurafroyenphd. That's where you can get behind the scenes. Look at what balanced, conscious parenting looks like in action with my family, and plus I share a lot of other, really great resources there too.
All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!