Episode 107: Supporting Yourself Through Hard Times with Tanisha of MedicalMomsofNICU
/For this week's episode on The Balanced Parent Podcast, we are going to talk about a topic that is a little bit different from what we have tackled before and is quite personal in my own parenting journey. Many of you know that while I was pregnant with my second daughter I got into a car accident that started me down a path that eventually lead me away from academia and into my work with you all. But something I rarely talk about is my first daughter's traumatic birth that resulted in a Neonatal Intensive Care stay. During both of these incredibly difficult moments I had to dig deep to figure out how to support myself and how to be fully present with my family. I struggled with my self worth, knowing what was right, and feeling like I was constantly failing. During both of these incredibly difficult moments I had to dig deep to figure out how to support myself and how to be fully present with my family.
It wasn't easy and at the time I felt incredibly alone.
I am speaking more about this experience TODAY in this online retreat, I'd love to have you join me!
I know now that my emotions and experience in response to these stressful situations were incredibly common and understandable and that I'm definitely not alone. And while you maybe haven't had these exact experiences or had a medically complex child, I know that there have likely been times, especially over these past two years, where things have felt very heavy and hard. And that's what I want to support you with in this week's episode with my guest Tanisha Burke-Wormley. She is a NICU mom of a medically complex child who supports moms all over the world as they move through the space of having to stay in Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) with their child. Her son, Jaleel, is a NICU and Kidney Warrior who she helps conquer Chronic Kidney Stage 5 everyday as a Stay-at-home Medical Mom. She also has a healthy daughter, Jameela, that she gave birth to at home in October 2020 during the Covid pandemic.
She will be helping us learn:
Ways to support NICU Moms and Special Needs Moms
Self-care during difficult times
Staying present with our children despite life's challenges
To get more support, follow Tanisha on social media and join her Facebook community. She is a grad student and donates much of her time to these causes, so supporting her by giving her a follow or spreading the word to moms you know who need support is hugely appreciated!
Instagram: @medicalmomsofnicu
Facebook Page: www.facebook.com/MedicalMomsofNICU
Facebook Group: Medical Moms of NICU Group
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello everybody, this is Dr. Laura Froyen and today we're going to be talking about something that is a little bit different than what we've talked about before and is quite personal in my own parenting journey and to have this conversation and I've brought on a guest in a beautiful soul that I'm so excited to introduce you to, who supports moms all over this world as they move through spaces after having had a NICU stay with their little ones. So Tanisha Burke-Wormley, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you, can you tell us a little bit more about your story, who you are and how you support moms?
Tanisha: Yes, so thank you Dr. Laura for this opportunity. I appreciate you. I'm glad we were able to come together in Clubhouse, make this podcast happen. But for those who don't know me, Tanisha Burke-Wormley, I'm a proud NICU mom, especially mom to Chelios Jaleel. He's three now and he is a chronic kidney disease stage five warrior and marches Kidney Month for those who do not know.
So this is a blessing that I'm on this show, marches kidney month and national kidney month and he just received a kidney transplant on February 4th 2021 and now he's off dialysis. So our life has changed tremendously and we're just so thankful to God and based on his story, I was able to create a project, a professional project catered to NICU moms, but medical moms, because I found myself just having a lot of supplies, speedy tube supplies.
My son is a G2 baby and he's in Dallas is no longer on dialysis now, but he was on dialysis and then I had mass medication. So that's the reason why I came up with the medical moms of NICU mom and that community has grown tremendously and we're just so thankful in our own facebook is a private group for all of us connect and share our resources from our NICU experience.
Laura: Oh, Tanisha. Yeah. I think that's so amazing. You know, so my oldest daughter had a NICU stay. She had breathing difficulty use after birth and otherwise she was beautifully healthy. We were so fortunate. But the small NICU stay was so scary, so stressful, so traumatic. We had had an emergency c section. It was so hard and there was no support. I had nowhere to turn to. I was in grad school at the time.
My husband was too, it was so hard and I just wish I had had the support of a group of women who had been there. Who knew what it's like to not be able to room in with your baby to be floors away from your baby. And I had to go home with, I'm sure you did to, to go home without your baby. It's so hard. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about and how you got started? Cause I think you were in grad school to when you had your NICU experience. Will you tell me?
Tanisha: Yes. We both were strong for taking on grad school on top of the NICU stay. Like, let me tell you like I still have blown away. So congratulations to you dr lure for finishing your education. But I started out with my program when I was pregnant with Julia and everything looks smooth. 20 weeks. We did the anatomy skin.
And that's when things started to trickle out of control because they found that Jalil's kidneys were really massive out of the perimeter of normal. And what was happening was, you know, how you have amniotic fluid around the baby. Well, Jalil's flew was trapped into his kidneys and he had a block that caused damage to his kidneys and his lungs. And it was called lower urinary tract obstruction. And it's a rare, rare condition that some babies that are in the womb have and it can be terminal if not intervene.
And so we left from Arkansas. I thought to mention I'm from Arkansas, we left from Arkansas to go to Cincinnati Ohio for fetal care intervention. And I'm so full for Cincinnati Children's Hospital in this Samaritan Hospital because without their care and intervention, I know julie wouldn't have made it outside the womb alive. And so from there, I was still coordinating with my professors because they knew that this was an emergency situation and I was just letting them know. I really desire to finish this program. But right now my life is tumultuous, but the NICU stay not knowing when we're coming home.
And so they told me there's no deadlines, deadlines as you finish your project the end of the semester. Don't worry about the deadlines. And so that's how I was able to complete my degree while in the NICU. But I was pacing myself and really the reason why I did it because like, it was insane to do it because you're already stressed with the NICU, but it gave me an outlet because I love education. I've always been very passionate about education. I'm the first of my immediate family to earn my bachelor's and master's back to back.
So I really have a passion and it kept me from really focusing so much on the trauma Julia was going through and kind of put my attention elsewhere. And so that's the reason why I kept pushing forward.
Laura: Oh my gosh, wow. Well, congratulations. And pushing in that way and having, I think a purpose and a higher way of serving can be really helpful in those circumstances. I'm so glad you had a supportive advisors to who had your back and that's so wonderful.
Tanisha: I'm going to just withdraw completely and just picked it up later. But they knew that I was so close to finishing. They were like, no, we're going to keep you in the program. Just let us know updates on Jalil.
And so recently I was happy to let them know because they've been through this process with me since he was in my womb. I was like, you look at a kidney to look at a kid, you tell everybody in the kidney kidney. So they're like, overjoyed with us. So it's just been a blessing to share so great news with everyone that's been following him since he was In my womb at 20 weeks. And so.
Laura: Oh my God, Tanisia, I think you're highlighting something right here that is so crucial that we need support. We need support as moms, whether you've had a nick you stay or a traumatic birth or health challenges for yourself or for your kids, that is a universal truth that we are not meant to do this alone. And so I so admire that you're providing the support for, especially for these moms who have had specific challenges to face as they transition into motherhood. Can you speak a little bit what kind of support you've noticed that moms really need this time? And you know, statistically speaking, there's lots of people who are listening who have had these experiences and maybe didn't have a place to go. And so I'd love to know a little bit of, like if we know people who are in this space now how we can support them.
But also if we've been there perhaps in the past and we didn't have a chance to get the support that we needed what we can do now to kind of cope and recover because it's a lifelong process, I don't know, I still cry over my daughter's birth and NICU stay, sometimes it's eight, you know, so.
Tanisha: And then because the way I thought I was going to be okay, but I'm still healing. I didn't realize that I'm still in a place of healing from all that we've been through. But of course I would definitely say that my project was grad pacific and the reason why I was so grateful for the experience now that I look at it Jaleel’s journey, is that my professor and advisor? She was like, why don't you start?
Because I was in mass communications, that's my degree. You might want to do a project that's tailored twist NICU moms because you're in that road right now. And I know you're getting a lot of resources from the hospital. And so I was like, yes. So that's where the medical moms of NICU came about and really what I did was interview some of the moms that I connected to that had the same diagnosis as my son.
And I featured their story on Youtube and I was just doing questions Q. And A session of like what resources they bumped into and if their child didn't have the diagnosis as mine could, they briefly share what it was and how they could be a resource to another mom. And so I was just trying to connect us all together because I feel like if you can find someone who understands and you can reach out directly to them and get your answers quicker.
And so with that transpired to is a private group on facebook medical moms of NICU and I when I started that in 2019 doctor lawyer, I was just sending Nikki journals because that's not a NICU K leon George Eliot and she sells NICU mom diary journals. You can document little notes of your journal and your story because it's so, so much going on and sometimes we just need to let out how we're feeling. And so I started to collaborate with her to sponsor some moms to get that journal that she provides.
And then from there I started finding some other NICU moms with Children's books featuring there NICU experience and sending Children's books out to moms to kind of help them and their experience and inspire them. And then recently last year I went for a scholarship from the National Society of Leadership and Success and they blessed medical mom's NICU because of what we did small.
They bless us with $1000 responsive or moms. And so I told them all about mom care package. So it started to find some moms, different items that I knew they needed. Like for instance, you know when you're in the hospital didn't really give you like really good skin care products.
Laura: I've never had worse chapped lips than when I was in the NICU like, oh my gosh and all the hand washing my hands were so raw you have to do a full scrub like I want to put your baby.
Tanisha: Yeah. So I started to look around the company called brutti by roots and they make really oatmeal, Himalayas, seesaw scrubs and put that in the package along with the journal. Then we had some victoria's secret little smell goods and the tote and they gifted us a gift card because they saw what I was doing, victoria's secret.
I used to work there so I was just so happy that they were able to give us a little bit discount on those products and then I just put a little bit of love and they're just like letting them know like they have some essential oil where they can subscribe their body. So a lot of this stuff was just mind body and soul
Laura: You have loving on his mom's.
Tanisha: Loving on them because we pour so much in our NICU miracle that were depleted and we can't pour from an empty source.
Laura: No you cannot.
Tanisha: So that's what I really did. I was just pointing to and then another mom that I ran into on social media, her name's Charlotte and she has seven Children, seven and so she was like, I'm willing to give these mamas if they're willing to discount on my mommy meltdown session. So we had the mental aspect too. So I created like a self care package that was highlighting the mind body and soul healing that you desperately need when you're in a NICU experience just putting products to heal that area.
Laura: Oh my gosh, I love that, I don't know if you know this but there's research out there to that kids who've had nick, you stays tend to be more sensitive than other kids. More sensory sensitive and have more up and down emotions. And so that's something to that I like, you know, looking forward, I think that there needs to be a space for its wonderful. Of course they need support in the moment when they're in there.
But just having a community of like, okay, so now we're raising our babies, we're raising our babies who are different, have different needs, have different experiences, have different, you know, birth trauma trauma for us, but it's also trauma for them. NICU trauma is trauma for us. But for them to, I think it's so beautiful to have a space moms can stay connected and support each other through all those challenges that life with a baby who's needed more support is just as the truth of it.
Tanisha: Absolutely. And especially in this pandemic doctor, I know you imagine even with your work, a lot of the therapy because my son is delayed in ot speech physical therapy. We went to a facility before, Covid that was too hot. And so you're trying to learn how to do these therapy exercises virtually and do tele therapy.
Laura: With a three year old and oh, oh my gosh, so now you have to wear all those hats, right, We have to wear so many hats anyway. Oh yeah. Uh huh.
Tanisha: Yeah, it's like now everyone gets it because all the moms have to home school, you know, they're figuring it out. But it's just like you can find your community and I really, I just tell the NICU moms in my own community, like please please share whatever works for you.
Like there is no judgment if you decide to put your child in the developmental preschool while we're in the pandemic, I'm not judging you if you decide to do the virtual learning or the virtual telemedicine because your child is chronically ill or medically fragile. I'm not judging you but just show us the progress that they're making because I really want to shine light on the medical milestones because our Children have been through so much and it feels good to like feature little highlights of their story. I'm so glad that moms are doing that now because I didn't want it to be about just blue. I wanted two spotlights, The NICU miracles that have different journeys than his.
Laura: Okay, so I don't know if it's true for you, but I'm imagining for these moms who are getting to tell their story. I know storytelling for me is incredibly healing. Speaking to the story and so just the act of sharing a story I think can be healing and then hearing someone else's and you know, no matter your story is going to be different, but there will be pieces that resonate and here, I'll say that they too struggled with that. That that was hard to, can be so powerful.
Tanisha: Yes. Again, I found it to be very filling for all of us because before the pandemic, I was hosting zoom interviews and it was so saturated, right? Because we all have these stories and I was like one day I'm gonna get to a point where I can just do one on one interviews because I really went to spotlight everyone's story and really take a pause and really ask specific questions to their story so that when another mom comes in they can just go straight to that mom that's been through that journey.
And so I'm like in the process of rebranding medical models and make you because I really want the story to be really compelling and that's not brushed it so often. I don't know if you've seen this in your work Dr. Laura, but we tend to rush and said my son was in the nick use such in such days and he's been through all this living stuff and we don't really process it.
Laura: You're talking about something that's so common in the trauma world. We have almost like an elevator speech that we can talk about the details in a way that's almost cold in a self preservation sense because once we start to slow down and really connect to what we're saying. That's when the emotions come up, they well up within us and it's hard to stay composed. It's hard to stay, you know what we think we're supposed to look like when we're sharing our story.
But you know, so that elevator speech of course is crucial because people want to know and you have to have good boundaries with yourself. You have to keep be able to keep yourself safe, right? You have to be able to know like, okay, so I can be emotionally contained in this space, but it's also important to have a space where you can let those walls down a little bit. You can be a little softer and slower and more tender with yourself. That's where healing happens, processing it, you know?
Tanisha: And I've always been that way, like even before, you know, doing the work with the NICU Mom. I want to share the dark side that I was feeling of a journalist. I took pictures because I couldn't write what I was feeling.
But I did capture lots of videos and photos. So whoever is watching that's NICU Mom right now, that's loving your podcast, please. If you can just take pictures and videos. Because when you're in a place where you can process in journal is going to make it easier again in that moment and I'm just so thankful because I wasn't able to be present because so much was going on, it was like chaos.
Laura: You were in survival mode. Of course, you know, and it's also normal, you know, if you're on the other side of that now to have very few memories of it because when we're in trauma, when we're in survival mode, the parts of our brain that encode memories are turned off to protect us. You know, our brains are beautiful. And so like sometimes when I think back on it, it's very fuzzy and I'm so grateful that I took pictures.
We actually have a little book that sometimes my eight year old still wants to sit down and look through. She sits on my lap and she sometimes has very primal crying sessions while we look at it when she looks at this baby with all the wires coming out and connect with like that's me and I was crying for you and the nurses wouldn't let you come to me.
Like we do processing sessions me and my child together now because she holds that trauma in her just like I do and we have to craft a narrative. I think telling your story over and over and over again allows you to process and it also allows you to make meaning and make sense out of it. I think that's what you're doing. It's a beautiful gift you're giving.
Tanisha: Yes. And I didn't see that before. I'm glad that you're able to share the story of your eight year old and where she's come from because that's her story and she's owning it right now. Like so often as adults, we don't even own our trauma what we've been through. And so I think you're doing an awesome job just by sharing her story so that he can be self confident and walk into a purpose without any secrets.
You know and I appreciate you and that's what I'm intentionally doing for my son. Like his story is out there and I want him to own it. I don't want him to hide it from the world. I think it's inspiring. And yes as a mom you're trying to conceal some things that are delicate don't share but for the things that you know are very inspirational and can be motivating to another mom why not share it.
And when you were talking honestly it made me think about a year ago this mom reached out to me from instagram And because Lou two is so rare she saw Jill and she was pregnant at the same time as me and she was given no hope and she was like she's in United Kingdom by the way. And so it's an international damn.
And she reached out to me and she was like Tanisha, I'm so glad I found you will because they were giving me a grave news about my son and I was telling her about how Julia received a shot to kind of help that fluid that was building in him be released. And so she went and went to another medical facility and received the same services that we received here in the United States And long story short, she was able to get the shot for her son just like me and her son is alive. He's thriving. He's thriving.
And so she was just let me know his update recently. And I'm just like, I didn't know that we were going through this journey to save another mom, another mom, you know, and another mom.
Laura: And a baby in the whole life.
Tanisha: A whole life. And it's like they gave us three options. They said that Jalil be a still born, we could terminate At 20 weeks pregnant and want to do this is my first child. By the way, I had a miscarriage before him. So of course I'm not in that place to terminate. I'm already attacked your attachment. You get the pregnancy right? So at 20 weeks, you know, I'm not gonna tap out on that.
And then they were telling me that I could care full term. But the likelihood of him surviving is really low because his lungs were affected because he was getting no amniotic fluid to breathe in and out in and out, no practice.
But I was like, no, there's got to be my husband. I was numb. So my husband was like, there's got to be more options and I'm so thankful that he opened up his mouth because I was crying, my eyes out. I cannot profit what they were saying. And when he spoke up then immediately I went to work the next day and started calling these hospitals like can you see if we're willing to travel just to see what you can do.
Laura: It is the way you have catered for your child and yourself. It's beautiful.
Tanisha: Yes, we have to, we were given a NICU miracle for a reason. I didn't realize my strength into I end up in this journey. I'm like, oh my God, because I was very like when it came to I had really bad white cooked syndrome, scared of doctors. I was like, no, no, no. I never really wanted to ask questions or challenge what they were saying.
But Julia has grown me speak out loud if I'm seeing a care provider that's not attending to my son in a certain way change it and someone else because at the end of the day, your child is relying on you because my second speak right now he's developmental delayed, so I am his mouthpiece. And so he's relying on me and dad to be the voice that he needs right now.
And so it's not one of those possibilities to take lightly. And I just think that we know best as moms mama intuition when our child needs at the end of the day with the degree or no degree.
Laura: I agree so much, you know, it's easy for me, you know, like when I have to advocate for my kids and early childhood settings, I had to do this a little bit more because there were times where the care providers and I didn't align on things or they were looking at my daughter, you know, in a different way and I needed to advocate for her and it was so easy for me to come in and like plop my PhD in human development down and be like, nope, I know what I'm talking about, but I didn't need that. We have everything within us.
You know, we do, we have every right to be confident in because we know our kids best. We know how to listen to them and oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you have been able to really step into your power as Julio's mom. That's so beautiful.
Tanisha: Yes, that is a blessing because at first I was very fragile. The first wave of the Nikki journey, my husband was the one that was drily advocating until I got to the most face where I can get myself together because you know, you're going through those hormone drops after you have a child.
And when you have a child that's in the nick you unfortunately you don't get to bond the way you thought, like you were saying with all these cords and wires, how are you supposed to have that experience of skin and skin?
So I really was going through, you know, the baby blues syndrome, so to speak, and I was not able to really share what I needed to my husband's he saw that and it's really a precious thing that We're able to be one in marriage. Because I don't know if I have the strength in the beginning to really communicate what I needed for Jalil, but my husband being in tune with my needs, he was able to pick up where I didn't have the strength to and I got to a place where I could start being the one that was like, you call me before you do that, you call me.
Laura: Oh Tanisha. I think you're highlighting something that's so important to what you know. So I'm a couple therapist by training and you and your husband demonstrated there is turning in toward each other in a difficult time. And so, you know, so often when we face difficult circumstances, oftentimes, you know, partners that struggle, they turn away from each other and you really turned into each other. Do you have any, I don't know, tips for people who are in a hard time with or noticing like, oh, as a partnership, we're turning away from each other right now and how we can turn in and rely on each other and have a kind of, it's this is us against the world kind of mentality that it seems like your partner really had with you.
Tanisha: I would say the biggest tips that I've seen Dr. Laura and my own personal walk is just the fact to be vulnerable. Because even when we were at the care conference and they were telling us the what if, the possibilities, the risks and the benefits of conversation for my husband to be open and communicate how he felt.
I've seen his emotions like sometimes like men they hold it all in, right? In certain situations like that, I was able to see him in his grand moments and I just feel like we have to break down those walls of “I have to be strong”.
I can't show my emotions as a man or as a father that's hurting because this is his first child too, right? It's not just me. So I like for us to be in tune with each other and share how we're feeling from one day at a time, not so much, you know, looking at what the future holds, but taking it one day at a time and processing for the day.
Laura: Be present with each other, vulnerable. Yeah. In embracing that as strength, I think it's so important that especially, you know, you're a mom raising a little man, you know that we really have to redefine what it means to be a strong man and a strong man can be a soft man. You know.
Tanisha: You can cry. That has been one of those things that's hindered us from healing is not crying, a releasing moment.
Laura: It is. It's so beautiful. You can measure cortisol, a really big stress hormone in your tears, tears are one of the bigger bodies biggest healing mechanisms, tears and shaking. I don't know if you remember shaking after in that process but shaking is another just natural way our body releases stress. So shaking and crying do it all just cry did and
Tanisha: I think too because we process things a little different as when we love to talk and release and we find that and for my husband, he had a few friends that he reached out to during the process like it was all us together applaud the process of NICU was God and my husband and I. It was a trinity because at that time we were all feeling it and I was just like you know, you go to your space and you connect with your friends that you trust and then without me included because I know that you need that just like I need to reach out to somebody, NICU moms because I'm not feeling the best you get field, because if you get that field then you're able to talk to me instead of being disconnected. And I don't know what's going on with you because you're not communicating with me.
So I think to we have to also allow our husbands or our partners to reach out to those that they trust their friends just like we do with our friends and then once they got that grounded, healing from a male standpoint or from a father, a husband standpoint then they're able to come and connect with us as their wife and they're partner
Laura: So you're hitting on something that is just so incredibly wise that a marriage cannot hold all that we are, it cannot carry the weight of all of the burden of being a human who experiences pain. It can't hold it also. And yeah, you're so right. We've got to look for support and outlets outside of our marriage at times so that we can come to our partnership where we're not relying entirely on the other person for our own well being right.
Tanisha: Like that's the reason why you're counseling, right? Marriage relationships. This is the reason why there's so many counselors out their relationship because we can't just rely on each other and they will bring.
Laura: Yeah. Well Tanisha, I have loved this conversation. I think what you're doing is amazing. So if people wanted to find, I guarantee there are people who are listening right now who feel so inspired and want to support the moms that you work with or who have been in these places and either want to lend you know their story to your project or get support. Where can they find you, how can they get in touch with you?
Tanisha: The easiest way done everywhere is the guy on facebook Medical Moms of NICU type that into the search bar and you will find the page. But what I want them to look for is the group, the private group where they can connect several different moms and so if you go to medical moms of NICU and you go on the page, you click the group, you'll see the private group and all you have to do is ask a few questions really just to verify that your NICU mom or special needs mom and just briefly tell how long you were in the NICU and from there, we'll give you access to care, your story, your resources and you'll have the opportunity to get giveaways like we spoke about earlier.
So it's really a blessing. And on Instagram is the same way you can find us on Medical Moms of NICU and they can send out a DM if they have any questions about the facebook group. But if they want to connect with moms, definitely go to the facebook group first.
Laura: Okay. So yeah, absolutely. So I'll put the link to the Facebook group in the show notes here and then if there's anybody who's not a NICU mom but wants to support your work, they can get you, get in touch with you on Instagram.
Tanisha: DM on instagram. Thank you. So I appreciate the work that you're doing. I appreciate a conversation Dr. Laura. Like I said, you felt genuine when I communicated with you on Clubhouse and I'm just so thankful that we were able to make this happen and if you're listening as a NICU mom, I just want you to know, take it one day at a time. I know it sounds cliche, but if you just take it one day at a time you won't overstress and burn yourself out. And I know that the doctors are just telling you those risks because they have to tell you those risks. But it doesn't mean that your child is going to experience those risks. So stay faithful. Stay optimistic in the process.
Laura: Mm and you're not alone. You're not alone.
Tanisha: Yes. And there's a community out there waiting to hold you and embrace you and give you virtual. Oh, so just reach. I love it.
Laura: Okay, well thank you so much. Again, wow, you're a wonderful and a gift. Thank you for sharing your gift with us.
Tanisha: Thank you that the Lord for your work and I appreciate you for a lot of me just create a safe space to talk about this.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
And if you're listening, grab a screenshot and tag me on Instagram so that I can give you a shout out um and definitely go follow me on Instagram. I'm @laurafroyenphd. That's where you can get behind the scenes. Look at what balanced, conscious parenting looks like in action with my family and plus I share a lot of other, really great resources there too.
All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this