Episode 81: Social Justice Parenting with Traci Baxley
/I truly believe, from the bottom of my heart, that one of the most effective ways we as parents can change the world is through our children and our parenting. That conscious, respectful parenting is in itself a radical act of activism in a world that is unjust. And that anti-racist activism is an integral part of this work that we are all doing as we raise our kids differently than how we were parented. I know that you too seek to raise a generation of children who know who they are and what matters to them, who deeply understand justice and seek it in all their spaces, who are fierce advocates not only for themselves but for others, who are more proactive in their kindness, and who intercedes when harm is done.
This is why I'm so thrilled to have Dr. Traci Baxley of Social Justice Parenting as a guest for this week's episode on The Balanced Parent Podcast. She is a professor, consultant, parenting coach, speaker, mother to five children, and the author of a new book that comes out TODAY: Social Justice Parenting. As an educator for over 30 years with degrees in child development, elementary education, and curriculum and instruction, she specializes in diversity and inclusion, anti-bias curriculum, and social justice education.
Here is an overview of what we talked about:
Social Justice Parenting
Shifting from fear to radical love
The difference between being a good person and being pro-justice
Tips on raising kids to know they have power and privilege & how to use it.
To learn more, follow Dr. Traci on social media and visit her website:
Website: socialjusticeparenting.com/home
Instagram: www.instagram.com/socialjusticeparenting
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/tracibaxley
Dr. Traci's book, SOCIAL JUSTICE PARENTING: How to Raise Compassionate, Anti-Racist, Justice-Minded Kids in an Unjust World launches today! This book tackles not only the basics of respectful, connected, empathic parenting, but also what a social justice approach to parenting looks like and what it requires of us (because they are wrapped up in one another!). It also digs deep into specific, practical applications, giving you concrete parenting tools to put the philosophy into practice with your kids immediately!.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts, and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello Everybody, this is Dr. Laura Froyen and on this week's episode of The Balance Parent Podcast we are going to be talking about parenting for social justice and social change and I'm really excited to have my guest who has written a beautiful book on this topic, Dr. Traci Baxley of Social Justice Parenting, amazing account on Instagram and a beautiful philosophy. So Traci, welcome to the show, I'm so excited to have you. Will you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Traci: Yes. Hi Laura, I'm happy to be here. I am Traci Baxley and I am, I guess my number one job is being a mother of five and I am also a professor and consulting and coach and I work with families around issues of race, racism, raising human beings who are more compassionate, more kind and who want to make the change changers agents in the world.
Laura: Yeah, I love that. It's I think that it's one of the beautiful things I have always loved about your account that as I've been reading your book. It's a beautiful mission to be thinking about how can we not only raise kids who love themselves who feel as if they belong in this world and in our family but then also go out and create that sense of kindness and belonging out in the world. It's beautiful.
Traci: Yeah, thank you. That's the ultimate goal, right? We raise kids in our homes with their own values and our own core values and our ways of being inside the home. But we also have to be conscious that those are the things that they walk out of our homes with and those are the things that they take with them when they, when they leave us. And so how do we start creating this change in our homes so that they create these same changes in their communities and you know, eventually in the world?
Laura: Yeah. Okay, so when we think about the name of your Instagram account and the book is Social Justice Parenting, what does that mean to you?
Traci: I think it's just a way that we intentionally kind of show up in our parenting role that's purposeful and that it really is about raising children who I say care and care deeply who love radically, who can show up themselves and others raising kids who are consciously more kind and more compassionate and who want to do good in the world. I think the more that we are intentionally working on these things in our homes, the more that these things become natural and normalize for our kids as they enter into the more public spaces.
Laura: Absolutely. And why is this so important? Why should we take this on as like an intentional value as parents?
Traci: I think we're seeing a world right now so divided almost more than ever. And I think as we see injustices around us, as we see that we can't find middle ground, I think now more than ever we need to be raising children who learn how to compromise right and, and to show up for others because I'm really afraid about the direction that we're going in as a country, as a nation.
And if we don't start to kind of write this train a little bit through the way we're raising our children, the next generation won't really have a chance to learn what it means to give of yourself right? To be a little bit selfless, to see others as our own in order to really be able to see the humanness and all of us, in order to be able to make the changes that we need in the world.
And I know in a selfish way, I look at that Laura, I need your kids to know who my kids are, right? So we need to think about the way we raised our children as a part of a village, a human village that raising and those values start in our own homes for them to be able to do that in the world.
Laura: It starts early, very young, right? I had a listener reach out to me when she found out that I was interviewing you and asked you know, so she's got little ones infants and toddlers, two year olds and she's just wondering, okay, where do I start with this? Where do I like beyond getting your book, which everybody listening should go do that right now. Hopefully, buy it from an independently owned bookseller. But if Amazon is what you got to go get it there. But what is it that we can do? And we've got really young children like what are the first stepping stones?
Traci: I think the very first thing you do is you have to be honest with yourself about your own feelings, right? So there's a lot of self-reflection that needs to happen about your own childhood about your own biases about your own experiences and being able to unpack those honestly in order to be more intentional about the way you show up with your kids. So it really starts before you even really interact with your kids around things.
Laura: Just like anything else was conscious parenting, right? It always starts with us.
Traci: And I think the bottom line is if we think about the development of kids and there's been studies that show kids as early as six months really recognize facial features and they gravitate to people who look like them. And then by the time they are in preschool they have developed that in-group bias. Right? So that they think that the people who look like them are more important are better friends.
Those are the ones they want to be around. And then by the time they hit early grade school they recognize that with color, with race comes power and privilege. And even kids of color recognize that white children have more power and privilege. So we're talking, if they're already toddlers, if they're already preschoolers, they already have ideas about race um long before we may even have those conversations.
Laura: That's why it's so critical right that we start proactively and very early allowing the discussion of differences of noticing. That's very natural for a child and then starting to have those conversations. One thing I love about your book is that you have this whole section of conversation starters which I just love, especially parents like me who are white and who grew up not having those conversations.
I grew up in a home where we were actively discouraged from having those conversations because that was the colorblind ideology was the thing in the 80s and 90s. I mean I think with good intentions, my parents had good intentions. They really you know, my mom grew up in a home that there was lots of active racism and she was attempting to counter that with us and unknowingly send other messages. I love that you're giving us the words that we might not know how to start. So I really appreciate that. Are there other things that we can be doing with our kiddos?
Traci: I just want to touch on something.
Laura: Okay please do.
Traci: For parents who grew up in the same way because a lot of us did right? But there's a lot of messaging in that silence.
Laura: Oh! so much. Yes, so much.
Traci: You're walking away with ideas whether you say something or not and I always say don't you want them to have your ideas about what race is and not media, not other family members, not their friends. And so I think probably the worst way of showing up in this space is not saying anything at all. There's a study that a teacher, I think it was northwestern did the study where a teacher was reading a book because we all say, okay, read books is a great place to start and it is a great place to start.
But not if you're just reading the words on the page, you really have to unpack what's going on. Point out skin color talk about what that means. And the study basically had a teacher reading the story and to half of the one group of kids, she read it and say we don't see color, right? We're all the same. You know, we love each other. And then the other half of she actually said race. These kids are black. These kids are agent race is a big deal in our country. We have to really unpack what that means. We have to have conversations around it.
We love differences. But she actually used the word race and then the kids had a kind of like a post-test on their ideas and their biases and the studies show that the kids who actually had the real words about race were more able to identify biases later. So our kids don't recognize this vague language that we often use and we really have to be really concrete, age-appropriate. Yes, but very concrete in the way we talk to our kids about race early.
Laura: Thank you for sharing that study with us. I think it's so important to bring the research into this piece of things. What I love too about your book is it invites that self-reflection of, you know, when we are leaning towards the vague language, when it feels more comfortable to go to that vague language, that that is a moment that is inviting self-reflection.
What is it that makes so uncomfortable? For example, for white parents to say that child is black, that's a black child and to use it with a capital B like, what is it that makes us that's anti-blackness showing up in our bodies in our frame of reference that somewhere along the line, we got the idea that we can't say that and, and that's just the reality of it. And I love too that you invite the knowing better and doing better and the not marinating shame and guilt figuring out acknowledging it, moving on doing better.
Traci: Thank you for bringing those up that we can't allow the way our bodies feel to dictate how we are short for our kids. Like we even have to talk about it. I feel a little bit scared to talk about this topic because it wasn't talked to me. Grandma and grandpa didn't talk to me about it. You talk to me about it, right? But I want to do better and do differently because I wanted to have a conversation where you're not afraid to talk about it.
So a lot of times as parents, right? We, our own experiences, our own anxieties. We project that onto our kids call that the fear-based parenting are afraid to allow our kids to think and to feel and to have discussions around. And we just kind of shut off their natural curiosities of asking questions, trying to figure out the world around them. And then we teach them that is not okay to talk about it. We can't talk about race when we're afraid to have those same conversations and then we perpetuate the same.
Laura: Mm-hmm. And we're just passing it down the line. You said something there, that reminded me of another piece that I love in your book that I wanted to pull out. Because it is critical in you know, any way we're looking at parenting shifting from fear to radical love. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that piece and why you have it so front and center in your book?
Traci: Yeah, I think a lot of us, especially when it comes to heart topics like this, we live in this idea of fear And I think the fear is because you know, it may be changes hard, right? talking about something that makes us uncomfortable in general. It's hard to have conversations with our children. We want to protect them. We want to keep them safe. And part of that is because of the fear of what's out there. Right? Talk about this idea of being able to have conversations about what's going on beyond your front door or your gated communities because we want to keep them from the truth.
And so we keep them in this bubble, we are really denying them opportunities to make choices to problem solve, to grow as human beings, to work on being more compassionate and kind when people are different. And so this protection or anxiety that we feel is really keeping them from growing and being good people. And so I really believe in this power of showing up with radical log, which just means really the bottom line is I'm not parenting for my own kid.
Laura: Yeah.
Traci: I am parenting from a space that all kids belong to me in some way and it is my responsibility to teach love and my own children so that love radiates to everybody else outside of my home.
Laura: I love that in fact that piece of part of social justice, parenting is not just considering how we're showing up for our children, but how you're showing up for all children.
Traci: Yeah, because we need each other, right?
Laura: We do, we're all in this together.
Traci: Absolutely. And if we don't start making those small changes in our homes, our kids really believe that we're going to get more of the same.
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. You said something just before about raising kids who are good people and I was kind of curious about if you can talk a little bit about what's the difference between being a good person, which most of us are, and being pro-justice.
Traci: We raised good people, we raised them to be kind and to do no harm, right? We raised pro-justice children, we are raising them to intercede when harm is being done. So it's more active, right? Kind, it's great raising good kids is great, but we want to raise kids who are more proactive in their kindness so that they are really seeing things from other perspectives that they're really wanting to be up to standards and that they see kind deeds and empowering and standing with others as something that's normal and that's what we do.
Laura: There is a difference and I think that there's part of this that is modeling and then also actively teaching our kids what to do, like how to intercede in a way that is safe because most of my friends who are folks of color and who are black have memories of being in school and having microaggressions or actually big racist aggressions perpetuated in school and there were bystanders, there were kids around them.
I think that for folks like me who have white kids, I want to actively teach them young how to intercede and stand up for their friends and for what's wrong. Do you have any tips for those of us who are in that position who really want to raise those activists who raise kids who know like that they have power and privilege and that they can use it even when they're quite young?
Traci: Let me tell you a story that's in the book that came to mind when you when we talked when you said that. So my girlfriend and I were the only two blacks. We were in this eight-week boot camp on one summer before we had kids and we worked out, he did three times a day workout through that time together with this group of people. We got close like a little family. Like even on the weekends we'd go to, it was an ex-marine who ran the boot camp. We would go to his house for happy hour and hors d'oeuvres.
But it was like a little bit of a family at that point. And the last day of the boot camp as we were like during our last-minute stretches he asked his children to go pick up all of the equipment And the girl who probably was like 10 or 11 went right away and start picking up all the equipment where the sun kind of got up, slowly dragging his feet, his body kind of hunched over and the girl turned around to her brother and said stop being lazy or stop walking like her and she said the n word. In that moment of course silence, everybody's wide-eyed looking at each other and then obviously their eyes went to my girlfriend and I were the only two black people in that group.
And when I look back on that moment, of course, I unpacked it with the kids and with the instructor. But in that moment, I needed an ally, right? I needed somebody who raised somebody to say, hey, that's not right or I don't think that's appropriate or I stand with you, or I'm sorry that happened to you. I would never allow that to happen to you or get or something, but nobody said anything because of that fear. And so this idea of what you're saying is for us to raise the next generation who won't be those people, you will learn to stand in solidarity with an empowerment with people who are being marginalized in some ways.
And I think the best way that we can start doing that at home is to literally role play it. So you have these scenarios, maybe it's a Friday night thing, right? We're having movie night pizza and then we're gonna pull sticks from a jar to role-play different events that could happen and actually having kids have the words to say when things happen because in that moment we get afraid and we're not, we don't know what to say.
But if they practiced this thing at home, it becomes second nature that this is what I do. This is what I say, this is how I show up. So don't be afraid to have some of these moments at home. That creates maybe some uncomfortableness at home. So that when they're out in the world, it gives them a little bit more power a little bit more strength to be able to stand up and have these conversations in the moment when they're happening outside of your home.
Laura: So beautifully put Traci, thank you so much for sharing that story so openly to illustrate how powerful it is to raise people to be allies. The role-playing works and help when my daughter who's nine now five hurt on the playground one day a little boy in her class told two of her friends, one who was Indian and when who was Asian and that he didn't like them because they had brown skin and she knew exactly what to say because we practiced it at home.
Like literally practice those things and so she stood in front of them said it's not okay to say that. It's not okay to like people based on the color of their skin or not like people go away and then comforted her friends and then went and got a teacher, you know, so I was super proud of it, you know, but it's and that's not like a cookie. Like we're not asking for, they get it. I think we can trust kids to get this early young, you know, she was only five, you know, so, but they need practice. You know, they need the skill, it's not something they learned overnight, you know.
Traci: By nature, they want to help, they ask the questions, I want to know what the problem is. I want to know how I can help. And when we don't allow them opportunities, when we're telling them to be quiet or shushed or we don't talk about those things. They then don't start trusting their instincts. And so we don't want to be the ones to squash that in our kids. These little moments are really defining moments for who our kids can become when you enter the world.
Laura: Okay. So I feel like we hit some of these pieces. I'm kind of curious about how folks learn more from you beyond this book. I know that you do consulting. Do you teach classes? Are there opportunities to kind of dive deeper and working with you?
Traci: Yeah, I have two courses that are out now. One is a long, longer-term course because it's not the book, but it's a lot of things from the book and extension of the book. I would say it is.
Laura: Yeah.
Traci: And then I have one quick like how to talk to your kids about race. So it's a smaller quicker course. And the other one is a little bit more in-depth with a lot of worksheets and a lot of work that you should be. And I do have one on one clients that I work with parents. And also I have group clients. So there's a group of moms who want to come around a certain topic or issue our parenting. Then I do that as well. Also too, You know, there's a lot of nonprofits and corporations that are doing a lot of DIY work, that's all part of my belonging umbrella. So I do a lot of corporate work as well.
Laura: Beautiful.
Traci: So I just want to work with anybody who wants to work in the space of belonging and being more compassionate, being more allowing people to show up as themselves. It's really important.
Laura: So important. I feel like your book is this kind of essential guide to just parenting consciously and respectfully. Like we all want to raise good people, people who stand up for its right, who knows what's in their heart, who knows how to trust themselves and move out into the world to create a world that is better.
You know, one thing that we didn't get to talk about entirely was this idea that, you know, I really believe that one of the most powerful ways that we as parents can impact the world is through our kids and through our parenting and I so appreciate that call that your book brings us to kind of look at that broader kind of, broadening our perspective, broadening our view of, of what we do as parents.
Traci: Yeah. And what our past experience has taught us and how we're showing up and modeling these things for our children every day and I'm a big, big believer in a family, actively creating core values together because those core values when you're out of line, you can always bring people back to the core values when I'm behaving in a way that doesn't align with your values in my house.
I want my children to call me on it because if we are creating a space where belonging and safety is important, where you have each other's backs like you're your brother's keeper, your sister's keeper is one of our core values and I'm not doing that in a way. You need to be able to call me on it for us to come back in alignment. And so I think that is kind of like the foundation for creating a family dynamic where we can see and do for others.
Laura: Yeah, where we can as a team, hold each other accountable and push our family as a group forward.
Traci: Absolutely.
Laura: Oh, that's so beautiful. Traci, Thank you so much for this conversation and for the gift of your work that you put out into this world. I hope that everybody listening goes and gets a copy of your book. I really appreciate your time and energy that you shared with us today so much.
Traci: Thank you so much, Laura, I really appreciate it being here and being a part of your audience as well.
Laura: The honor is all mine. I was so giddy to get to talk to you today, so I really, really appreciate it.
Traci: Thank you.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this.