Episode 219: Working with Our Negative Thought Patterns for More Ease and Calm with Darcy Harbour
/In this episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we’ll dive into how to work with the thoughts and stories that arise during overwhelming parenting moments. When emotions run high, our minds race, making it difficult to pause and respond with intention. Joining us for this conversation is family counselor and mom of three, Darcy Harbour.
Here’s a summary of what we discussed:
How parents can stay present and manage overwhelming emotions during their children's big emotional moments
How parents can identify the underlying beliefs and stories driving their reactive emotions
Setting realistic expectations for parents in managing their emotions, both in the moment and through ongoing self-work
How parents can work with their thoughts and beliefs without needing to deeply analyze their past
How to create flexibility in our thinking by recognizing thoughts as interpretations rather than absolute truths
How parents can proactively prepare for emotionally triggering situations rather than only processing them reactively
How parents can model mindful thinking and emotional regulation for their children in the moment
How parents can support their tweens in recognizing and challenging their negative or limiting beliefs
How to navigate the ongoing process of releasing deeply ingrained belief models that no longer serve us
If you found Darcy’s insights valuable, don’t forget to check out her website darcyharbourcounselling.ca and follow her on Instagram @darcyharbourcounselling and Facebook @darcyharbourcounselling
Remember, you don’t have to believe every thought—reshaping inner narratives fosters present, flexible, and self-compassionate parenting.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Dr. Laura Froyen, and on this week's episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast, we are going to be digging into how to work with the thoughts and stories that come up in those stressful, overwhelming parenting moments that we all have. When the emotions are big, the thoughts are moving fast, and it's really hard to find that pause so that we can be the parents we're hoping to be in the moment. I know for me, when I get carried away in the stream of my thoughts, I don't always end up parenting from the present, from actually going on with my kiddos in front of me at this moment. I get caught up in the stories that I'm telling myself, and that never feels good when we're looking back on it. So to help us with this conversation, I have just a lovely human being, Darcy Harbour. She is a counselor and has just a lovely perspective on learning to get a little distance from our thoughts so that we can be more present and in the moment with things and how they are. So Darcy, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you. Will you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Darcy: Yes, thanks, Laura, for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, like you said, I'm a family counselor in Victoria, BC, and I'm also a mom of three kids myself. So, a lot of my learning and experience goes beyond the books and into practical real life day to day experiences with my kids, and yeah, I really resonate with what you say. I think it's been the ultimate learning journey becoming a parent and recognizing emotions that the new ones that come up that surprise you that you didn't think you'd feel when you're working with your kids.
Laura: Oh, I agree. You know, I had someone tell me once that they thought people should do all of their hard emotional work and healing before they become parents so that they don't pass it on to their kids. And I could tell that this person wasn't a parent already, because I really don't know that that's possible. I think we can do as much work as we can. And then our kids come and they crack us open and they shine a light on all those places where we still have to grow. They're wonderful, helpers in that way. Okay. So what I'm most excited about, talking with you is this idea. In the moment when things are overwhelming. When our kids are having big feelings, there's a lot going on. That we can somehow find a space where we can be a little bit more present and how to go about doing that. And why does it all feel so overwhelming? I think that that's maybe where I want to start. So when it is so overwhelming, the big feelings are happening, big feelings are happening within us. You know that feeling we get when it feels like our thoughts are racing 1 mile a minute and we just can't get any space, and we just start reacting from habit. Why do we get rolling so fast? What's happening there?
Darcy: Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all, because these relationships are so close and important to us, right? There's, we, we feel such an investment, in those moments to our kids and to ourselves as parents that I think, you know, if we come from a, from a place of, of compassion and understanding, it's like this, this really matters, right? So the fact that when my child is in distress, experiencing a difficult or negative emotion, that might be upsetting to me because I might, I might think or or believe that that's not okay or that that's dangerous for them to be feeling those feelings. And so, you know, my reactivity might be in an effort to help them, to try to fix or solve the situation quickly to relieve them from the distress that I'm seeing them in, right? And it's also distressing for me to see them like that because I'm feeling like this is dangerous or not okay. Right? And so I think that the reactivity comes from a place of, of caring and wanting everyone to be okay. And when things aren't okay, that's upsetting.
Laura: Oh, caring and wanting everything to be okay. I think that is so true, especially of the parents who are, who are listening to podcasts like mine and some of the other wonderful podcasts that are out there. We feel very invested in making sure we're doing a good enough job, you know, we maybe had it growing up that was hard that we don't want to repeat, and we want to do our very best for our kids. And it, I feel like there was this little piece that was unsaid in what you just said there, that there's almost, there's, when we are holding so tightly to wanting to do a good job, it can increase some of the pressure too on us, right? And maybe even make it harder to stay calm in the moment because almost like we've got a lot riding on this. Does that make sense to you?
Darcy: Yes, because we're operating from that story, that belief that it's my job to make sure everybody's happy all the time.
Laura: Or it's my job to make sure everybody feels emotionally safe all the time or whatever the story is, yeah.
Darcy: And these negative emotions, maybe we believe they're not okay, right?
Laura: Or these negative emotions mean I'm doing something wrong.
Darcy: Yes.
Laura: Yeah. Oh, so there's a variety of stories that go under the surface, right? And you and I here, we can't name them all for our listeners, right? So I'm wondering if you were working with a parent. Who's talking about this? What would be some questions you would want them thinking through for themselves to find out what are the stories that are under of underneath some of the reactivity, right? Cause we just listed like 4 or 5 possible versions of the story, but everybody has, you know, every situation that's making us reactive, right? It has some kind of story, some kind of belief pattern underneath it. How do we go about pulling those out for ourselves?
Darcy: Yeah. That's a great question. The way I like to approach this, with clients and for myself is to start with that kind of self-check-in, right? Where you're starting with noticing the emotional cues in your body, right? What's my body saying? Where am I feeling this? And then being able to identify, you know, what might be the emotions I'm having that are showing up, right? As we get familiar with how different emotions show up, like fear, my tight, my chest gets tight. Right? Anxiety, my thoughts start racing and I start to feel really urgent, you know, and just understanding that when I start first with curiosity for myself and being able to understand the emotions that I'm experiencing and naming them. Then I like to externalize those emotions as separate characters like the movie Inside Out.
Laura: Oh my God, I love that movie so much.
Darcy: Yeah, it helps us to kind of get some distance from the emotions that we're experiencing. They're just characters that are coming to visit. And so when we see it in that, you know, separate way, that playful way, we then might bring the intensity down a little bit so that we can get curious and ask ourselves, ask that character, that emotion, what do you want to say to me? Right? And that's where we get some information about the stories and the thoughts and the beliefs that we have in that moment, right? It's by characterizing our emotions and, and being open to hearing from them, seeing them as friends, not foes.
They're just message deliverers, you know, I like to say that the clients, it's just a message they're trying to deliver. You get to decide what to do with that message, but we do need to hear from them. So we're noticing fear, we might say, you know, fear, yeah, what is fear saying to me right now? Right? Like, oh my kids acting this way, fear is saying, what if they never learn how to behave better and they won't have any friends, and now anxiety is getting in there and they're never going to be successful in life or get a job and you just get married and I'll never be a grandma. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, being able to identify the emotion. Gets some insight into a certain storyline that we might be listening to, because that emotion is kind of piping that in our, in our ear, you know, in those moments. And we want to listen to that, not to believe it, but to understand that's kind of what we're thinking about right now.
Laura: I really like that. So, it sounds to me like the first starting place is always compassion. You and I are so aligned in that place, you know, just coming from a place of self-kindness, of understanding that, gosh, this is because we care so much, and then curiosity, moving into really just seeing which actors are active right now, you know what little parts are. you know, are talking to us, understanding that those parts have our best interests, you know, in mind that they are always trying to do their very best for, you know, to help us through these situations, even if their methods aren't always so helpful. And then understanding their story and the thoughts that are rolling through. I really, really like that. And so I, I feel curious, do you? It seems, so I, I've been going to an IFS so IFS listens to internal family systems. You heard me just using a little bit of part language. It's an approach to therapy that I love.
Just when I learned about it as a grad student, it intuitively was like, yes, that's right for me. And so I've been seeing an IFS therapist for a long time. And I can do what you just talked about in the moment. Only sometimes after, after a long time of work, so I'm kind of curious about for, for the folks who are listening. What can we expect of ourselves in the moment versus is this work that we would do outside of the moment? Is it a both and is it a thing where we, if we can, we do it in the moment, great. And if we can't, we meet ourselves with grace and compassion and do the work. You know what I mean? Like just what is reasonable? We talk so much about what are reasonable expectations for our kids, right? Like that's what parenting coaches are all about, right? What is that a reasonable expectation? But let's, can we talk what are reasonable expectations for us as parents in these really tough moments?
Darcy: Absolutely. I mean, I always say to the parents I work with, it is never about perfection, right? It's, it's, it's never about that. And in fact, I remember picking up somewhere along the way, the 60/40 idea, whereas 60% of the time we're showing up in a way that we feel good about, 40% is less often. That's where we do our repair, then it's good enough. It's okay, right? So those times when we can recognize that we're maybe having a very intense visit with an emotion, right? That's good. Kind of taking over. It's, we're feeling flooded. We're like we're flipped out of our window of tolerance, you know, those moments, we just have to ride them out, right? We just have to, you know, get past, get over that wave, right? Cause that's all it is. It's still gonna pass, you know, and once we're, when we're in the, on the top of that wave, or out of our window of tolerance, we don't have access to these great ideas of being reflective and working with our emotions and all that. We're just, we're just regulated.
So you know, as you continue to do the practice, though, of just being a little self-reflective, of doing a little bit of checking in, of, first of all, recognizing the body signals and what emotions you're having, I think it just becomes more of a habit, as you recognize in these moments, it feels really dangerous, it's really urgent, like an emergency, but it's not. I mean, it rarely is actually. As dangerous or urgent as we're feeling, right, as long as everyone's safe, obviously, we, we need to first just recognize that, right? So we can come out of that place of feeling. The reactivity that urgency would promote us to, to do, right? If we're, we're needing to step in because, you know, we need to save a life. That's, that's necessary. But is, is this, is this the situation now? It might feel like it, but is it?
Laura: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's really interesting. I don't know when this episode will come out, but my family and I just had an emergency at our home. I cut myself, and my husband was on a trip and so I was home alone with my two kids, and it was a very bad cut. I ended up with stitches, had to go in an ambulance and stuff. And it was amazing at that moment. How calm and clear things were in this like an actual emergency. My primary concern was not scaring my kids and then getting, taking care of me, you know, myself. And it's interesting to have had that emergency and then comparing that to all of those times where it feels like an emergency, it feels like a life or death thing where things are high and I'm flooded, and it's interesting to be able to compare. My actual reaction to a real emergency versus these created things, these things that these stories bring up within me. Do you know what I mean?
Darcy: Yes, I do. It's interesting.
Laura: I hadn't really thought about allowing myself to benefit from this emergency that just came up. Just as a reminder, you know, when I'm feeling flooded, oh gosh, this actually is not how I really feel in an emergency. You know. Like in an emergency, I actually respond differently, you know, this is, this is a clue that this is not actually an emergency. I really like that. Thank you for reminding me of that.
Darcy: I'm gonna take that away as well. I really like that.
Laura: I love it when things like that happen when our lives present us with opportunities to learn, you know, new lessons. It's so good. I feel curious about, so one thing that a lot of my clients run into when they start trying to do this work. I not resistance, but a reluctance to start taking a closer look at some of those stories about where some of those stories came from, you know, once we find them, once we do that kind of curious and compassionate work of uncovering the thoughts. Doing that work of exploring, and not everyone has the capacity to do that work, cause it can be a lot of emotional work, and not everybody has the memory, the ability to remember where those came from, and or the desire to really dig into the past. And I kind of would love for your reassurance, for those folks that maybe we don't have to do a lot of that digging and uncovering in order to be able to benefit from knowing what our thoughts are and starting to work with them a little bit.
Darcy: Absolutely. I'm, I'm a big fan of, you know, there's more than one way to do this work. And, you know, for some of us, it can just feel so hard and heavy to go back and process stuff that we just, you know, we kind of just want to leave it back there sometimes. And, you know, that's not to say that, there aren't other ways of moving forward in your life and So with this whole, you know, observing your thoughts process, you know, this whole storytelling process, you know, we can recognize maybe certain stories we're telling ourselves so that we're listening to and believing. Aren't really serving us well. They're not really getting us where we want to go in our parenting journey, in our relationships, you know, in our day to day. So then what we can do, and instead of asking, well, you know, why do I think this way, or where did the story come from, if you can just ask yourself, what would I rather tell myself?
At this moment, what would be more helpful for me to think about? More realistic, more, more kind, more supportive. Whatever you want, you can choose, choose your word, like, how do you want to feel, right? In those moments and identify that if I want to feel more, say, calm. In these moments, then I need a story that supports that emotion. So that I might say, instead of saying like, my child is having a big feeling and this means I'm a bad parent, I might instead say, my child is having a big feeling and that's okay. And it'll pass, right? And, and this is normal, and I can handle this. Or, you know, all kinds of different, you know, mindset type shifts that you want. Maybe you don't yet believe but want to. You bring them into those moments and you, you kind of rewrite a story, right? You get to, you get to choose going forward, what you're believing, what you're thinking.
Laura: I, so I love this. I love the idea that we get to choose what we're thinking. I think in the moment for a lot of us, it doesn't feel like we're choosing our thoughts, right? It feels like they're just coming, they're appearing and they feel like the truth with a capital T, right? And you said something before we were recording, that you, you like to remind people that, we don't have to believe everything that we think, you know, that they're just thoughts. And I feel curious about it. How to, how to move from so these thoughts that aren't maybe so helpful, that are maybe rooted in in culture or history, but are not, you know, not working for us anymore, and not actually what we think, how to move them from feeling so close to the truth with a capital T where they're pretty rigidly, you know, held, you know, versus like how to, how to move towards being able to see them. As just a thought, as thoughts, not facts, you know, as a possible interpretation as opposed to the truth. Do you know what I mean? Like, how can we start getting a little bit more flexibility in there?
Darcy: Yeah, great question, right? Because like you said, especially ingrained in these patterns for a long time, like, this is the truth. What are you talking about? There's no other way to see this. There's no other way to talk about this. You know, when we think about thoughts like stories, then we can also understand stories, there's lots of different perspectives. Mhm. And so, you know, if we're having the idea that the thought we're having must be true, it's like, well, that's one perspective. What's another perspective from another person's point of view or another character's point of view? How could we tell this story again, you know, like those classic fairy tales they get told from the wolf's perspective, for example, right? So, so that we kind of get that flexibility of recognizing that there's a lot of different ways we could tell a story. This is just one way.
Laura: I really, really like that. I also like the idea of asking yourself, like, whose truth is that? Whose truth does that serve? Sometimes I think we were handed truths by you know, through intergenerational patterns that were true for previous generations. You know, if my dad spoke in a certain way to his mom, he would get, you know, physically hurt. That was not true in my generation, but I still have that moment of panic when my kids speak to me with disrespect. That is deeply ingrained, you know, because there's for generations, like that was a physical danger for the child. Do you know what I mean? And so for me, sometimes helping me to connect with whose truth that is, that's kind of just like reverberating in my body, but is no longer true in the here and now. Do you know what I'm saying? I feel like I didn't describe that well, but.
Darcy: Yeah, that this is maybe the story of my father, right? This is his perspective, right? This is, this is what he grew up, you know, learning, believing, living, living, yeah.
Laura: Yeah, so, I like to ask myself, whose truth is this? And I also like to ask myself, like, what is also true in those moments too. So because sometimes I feel like if we feel so close to a statement, a statement feels so true. We can't negate it, like, right? So we have to kind of come at it from a different angle. I really like coming at it from a, like, what is another way of seeing it, but yeah, what is also true, you know, in this moment, like, if we can hold this truth on one hand, what can we also hold us true on the other hand? So like in these moments with our kiddos, like, Yeah, I hurt my child's feelings. That is true. I hurt their feelings. And what is also true, we have a rich and dynamic attachment relationship and we know how to repair, you know, like that's also true, right?
Darcy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's flushing it out, right? Because sometimes our stories can become quite narrow when we're feeling, you know, guilty or shame about things and it's particularly narrow, and we forget all the other aspects to the story that are also coexisting.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, oh, I really like that too. Thank you so much. Okay, so. This is the work that's happening in our brains that we are thinking about or maybe journaling about. Are there ways that you suggest your clients do that work, proactively? Is this something that you can only do reactively? Like you've, you're in the flood, you're in the moment, or you're processing it afterwards. Is there work that we can be doing ahead of time to kind of, I don't know, get, get ready for these situations that we know are triggering for us?
Darcy: I mean, yeah, that's ideally the time to do that when we're not in the heat of the moment, right? I think, you know, becoming quite familiar with her triggers is helpful to reflect on outside of the moment. What, what typically sets us off into that kind of panicky state or that deregulated state. You know, that can just be a moment of, of journaling or reflecting like, you know, what, what typically is really pushing my buttons. And, and then, you know, you can do that reflective work, you know, either journaling or talking to your partner or friends about it, or Or maybe in a, in a therapy session, right, where you kind of understand more about what story might be going on for you in those particular moments. And having a chance to just reflect on that, notice that with curiosity. We're not judging it, we're not being hard on yourself about it. We're just bringing awareness, right? That this is what's going on for me in those moments. And so when we have that awareness, right? Like we, we typically know what kinds of things set us off or more difficult for us, then we can be a little bit more prepared, like, oh yeah, the kids are, the siblings are squabbling again. That's a particular trigger, right? Where I want to shut it down right away. I know that, right?
And then I can bring in, a perspective of the story that I want to flesh out more of instead of just saying like, oh, they're never gonna get along, and this means that they're not gonna know how to have other healthy relationships. I might say Like, you know, you know, sibling relationships are the chance to learn great relationship skills. And my job right now isn't to solve their problems, it's to help them solve them themselves, right? So I would, you know, coach myself, you know, to bring that additional piece of the story into those moments, you know, by reflecting on it ahead of time and just knowing, yeah, those particular times, they really hook me, typically, right? And so next time I get hooked, I wanna be able to just recognize, oh yeah, I'm getting hooked again. This is always the thing, right? And here's where I want to bring in some, some different new beliefs, some additional information or perspectives to the situation that are gonna help me feel. The way I wanna feel in these moments rather than being. Kind of pulled along by the feelings that are more automatic when I'm being triggered.
Laura: Yeah, oh gosh, I feel that imagery of being pulled along or it almost feels like being caught up in a raging river versus being able to get out onto the banks and watch the river flow in front of you, right? I feel curious about What this would all look like. In the moment to the child? Are we doing some of this work out loud? Are we modeling, slowing down our thoughts, having a thought, you know, that, we are actively choosing not to believe, you know, are we modeling this for our kiddos? Is this something that we can do in front of them, and with them? To the extent that it is, you know, appropriate boundaries are there.
Darcy: Absolutely. I really think that modeling is a huge piece of teaching our kids. They're, they're watching all the time on things all the time. Yes. And so, yeah, I mean, I will, I'll do that on a basic level of, you know, naming my feelings. Oh, I'm noticing you guys are fighting again. I'm getting really frustrated, right? And I'll say that not to make them responsible for my feelings, but rather just to show like I'm identifying how I'm feeling and then I'm going to take care of that feeling, right? And so you know, more on an emotion regulation side of things, the modeling would look like naming the feeling and then, you know, taking action, helping myself stay regulated. And so they would be seeing that, you know, as an opportunity to learn. Hm. Flip side, I don't do that, right? I'm frustrated and I lose it, and I'm yelling at them. You can still model repair, right? Like, hey, I was frustrated back there. I let it get the better of me. I lost my cool and I'm sorry, right? I didn't need to, you know, I shouldn't have yelled at you. That's not your fault that I was frustrated. You know, we can model repair. So either way, if we do, you know, manage to stay regulated or, you know, regulate our emotions in those moments, or if we don't, we can be modeling what to do.
Laura: Yeah, what to do. I like, I like that, and I feel so I don't know actually, Darcy, how old your kids are. Can I ask you, is that okay? Do you feel comfortable with that?
Darcy: Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. I have 3 kids. They're 8, 10, and 12.
Laura: 8, 10, and 12. I have a, a 12 and an almost 9, sorry, an almost 10 year old. So I'm right there with you. And so I feel very curious, and, you know, gosh, lots of my listeners, their kids have just kind of grown up with my kids. Like they found me at the, you know, I think I started my job when my oldest was 3 and my youngest was 1, and so Like a lot of the families who listen to the podcast have just kind of grow, we've grown up together. So we're all there, we're all in this tweenom, you know, area with our kids. And I'm, I'm starting to see some of their negative and limiting beliefs come out and the things that they're saying. And in some, even in some of the actions that they take, I can tell like, oh, that action didn't come from them. That action came from a part with a story, you know. And, you know, I, I feel very curious about when we start noticing this with our kids. Is there, is there stuff we can be doing to support them in, in learning some of these skills?
Darcy: Yeah, absolutely. I do notice a shift when kids get to be about 10,11, 12, where we see that happening, and we also, they are starting to develop that more abstract way of thinking themselves. And so it can be really interesting and helpful to have conversations with them. You know, coming from a place of curiosity, it's a, it's, it's a tricky balance, isn't it? Because we can quickly step on toes, they can get defensive and shut down or feel like we're correcting them or that. They're feeling shame and whatnot. So it's really, you know, the timing is pretty important to talk about these things when we're feeling quite connected. But to be able to share your observations, like, oh, I've noticed that you often when you talk about this friendship, this is what I'm hearing you say, you know, as a way of just reflecting back to them.
I like to think about, you know, part of being a parent in this moment is I'm being a bit of a mirror. I just don't want to show too much all at once where they get scared of what they see, right? A gentle reflection, right? Where, where we want to not then decide anything for them about it, but just present that to them and see what they think about it, right? To try to Encourage that reflectiveness for themselves, cause again, it's easy to just get automatic, right? They think these things are telling us what they think and they just think, they just go on their way. This is just the truth. So, you know, just, I think being a mirror and then asking them, what do you think about that? Or is there any other way to, consider, you know, what's going on here with this friend?
Laura: I like that. Is there any other way to think about it? You know, I think too, having an understanding of what your child needs from you in that moment when they're coming to you, right? So, or if they haven't come to you, you know, I mean, that's tricky to know, but sussing that out for, you know, for them and what they're available for, I think some kids are more open to, to learning from a parent versus a different trusted adults too, right? So like me, I have one kid who loves talking about this stuff with me and one kid who will begrudgingly talk about it with her therapist, but definitely not with me. She wants me firmly in the mom box. She doesn't like it when I wear other hats with her, which is okay. I understand that. She's a, you know, she's got great boundaries. Which is lovely, you know, it's, it's good. I find with that one where it's difficult to discuss that I primarily have to dig in through modeling on some of those things. So having a conversation with my husband where I know she's listening, like, oh gosh, I had a conversation with my friend today. And in the middle of it, she said something that kind of hurt my feelings. I felt myself getting reactive, and it took me a while to figure out what was going on, and I, you know, I just have to kind of move through some of those, those things. When she, I know she's listening in, versus the other one I, you know, we can talk more directly about those things. Yeah, go ahead.
Darcy: I know, I, that just made me think about another. Strategy that I suggest for parents when kids are like this is exactly that. When you tell your personal stories, either, you know, with an earshot, like, you know, your example, or, or with them, I mean. I don't know. I've yet to meet a kid who doesn't love to hear their parent share, like when they were their age or had a similar experience. And it's, we're not saying like, oh, I know what it's like to be you, but we're purely just sharing our own experience, that maybe could resonate, right? Or they just get really curious.
Laura: They do. It's wild to think about your parents as an adolescent. Yeah, you do have to be tricky though, right, Darcy, because like sometimes if you come in too quickly with your story. They will think that you're making it all about them. So you have to, you know, have to give a little space, make sure they feel really heard and understood, maybe even like the next day, you know, something that has, like, I've really appreciated about older kids is that the circling back period. can be so much longer now that they have so much better memories, right? You know, like when they're 2 and 3 and you need to circle back on something like there's a little urgency, you know, like if we need to kind of circle back and repair on something because they might forget, you know but with a 12 and 13-year-old, you can kind of circle back to the topic a couple days later and have it be more gently inserted as opposed to like, you know, just, I don't know, so, so confronting sometimes, you know, some, again, some you have to know your kid, right? Some kids are super open and some kids are, are not, you know.
Darcy: That's why I like to think about it more as dropping an invitation and or kind of developing this idea of an open door, where it's it, the invitation there, the door is open, but it's totally your choice to accept the invitation or walk through the door. Right. And so in the different ways that we can come up with for our kids and meeting them who, you know, where they're at with who they are, I think if we develop that kind of just sense, you know, that I'm here to talk about it, you know, if you want to, right? And then I and then I'm on your side, that kind of general feeling of, support understanding collaboration, right? So if we're not able to get them to see another perspective, I think you can always warm them up to those things by just really showing so much understanding and validation for them. Like, yeah, it's really hard having a friend that keeps doing that, hey, even though you want them. To get to that place of like, you could choose different friends or whatever, right? It's just to really stay with them on that. Yeah, it is, it's a struggle. Hey, every day this friend does this. you just really show them that like, yeah, your feelings make sense.
Laura: Yeah, yeah. Oh. I can't even, Darcy, I was just thinking like my inner 13 year old was listening to you say those things. I was like, Oh God, I can't even imagine what it would have been like to have an adult in my life who said that to me. I just can't even imagine what that would have been like, like, Oh yeah, man, that's hard. That makes sense, you know. It, It does. It does. It goes a long way. I really, really like that a lot. Okay, so I feel like I, I'm loving this conversation. I just wanna kind of zoom back out. I feel like we went. We're getting to all the points that I wanted to talk about. I'm just, I'm I'm kind of curious about one of the like. I'm having trouble structuring this this question for you. I'm thinking about what are some of the biggest, most common kind of overarching stories that you hear parents talking about, you know, that come up. And what are like some alternatives for them? Like, for example, I'm just thinking about the one like good, you know, like limiting beliefs. What are some of the common ones that really good parents have to look out for, I guess. I, I'm trying to think about like one of mine, might be something like, you know, good moms never lose their cool, like some, you know, like, what are some of the ones that you have or that you hear your your clients talk about. That are like the big ones to just to be on the lookout, like the sneaky ones that are that are out there. For those of us who find this really important, you know.
Darcy: For sure, yeah, that's making me think about this. Definitely that one, this good moms never lose their cool. That's not helpful because that's definitely one of my shame, right? You're like, oh, I've lost my cool. I must not be a good mom.
Laura: It's all the elements of the good, you know, the all or nothing thinking like.
Darcy: Oh, yes, exactly, exactly. I mean, I like to replace that with, you know, these mantras like I'm a good parent who's just having a really hard time right now and I'm allowed to have a hard time because I'm human. Right? Bringing that self compassion piece in all the time, right? When I'm having a hard time, it's just because I'm human. I'm allowed, right? This is hard. It's hard because it's hard, not because I'm bad.
Laura: It's hard because it's hard, not because I'm bad. I love that one. I like my kids need a real mom, not a perfect mom. I like that one. Yes, because it leaves even more room for like the messiness. Of reality of being human.
Darcy: Well, I think that it's a gift to our kids then so that they can also be imperfect, they can be messy and that we're all learning together.
Laura: And we're all lovable, you know, not even despite it, but because of our messiness.
Darcy: Yeah. Yes. My worth and my value are not conditional to my behavior, my good days or my bad days.
Laura: Ooh, my worth and my value are not conditional to my behavior, my good days and my bad days. Oh, I like that one a lot, a lot. Yes I'm feeling curious about what are some of the other limiting beliefs that you come up. Let's, I feel like that they come up for you, that you hear your parent, your kid, the parents that you work with saying. I, I'm, I'll think of some of mine too.
Darcy: A lot of one that comes up a lot, I think this is, this is rooted in fear and maybe even shame, but. My kids' behavior is a reflection of my parenting.
Laura: Oh yeah. Oh, I mean, I think that that thought underlies a lot of the ways that we show up as different parents in public, or in, in different settings, right? Like I'm, you know, I used to be a different mom at my mother-in-law's house versus at my own house. Do you know what I mean?
Darcy: Yes, I do. And, and so, you know, I like to poke a hole in that one, right? And, and remember, my child is a separate individual h an being for me. The idea that I would believe that I can actually control them like. I can't control. I have my own, right?
Laura: Like and and most of the parents that I work with and have the privilege to know do not want to control their kids either. Right?
Darcy: But this is what this is rooted in, right? If my child's behavior is a reflection of my parenting, then I have a false belief that I can. Actually control them, right? And in fact, what is a reflection of our parenting is just how we respond when they behave those ways, right? It's not the fact that they misbehaved, that means you're a bad parent, or they misbehaved because they're, you know, trying to meet a need and that's the best way that they could in that moment, right? That it wasn't a great way, but It has nothing to do with me, right? But what does have to do with me is how I respond in those moments. That's, that's a reflection of my parenting and, and you know, even in those responses, that's not about responding perfectly, right? It's just about recognizing that's the only thing I have control over.
Laura: Yeah. Oof It's a relief, you know, so I, I feel like one of the things that can be really helpful is to know when you found the, the belief that that helps you counter the the other belief is that it will feel Like a relief, like a putting down of a weight. I don't know if you would get that sense when you find just the right one, like, oh, I can stop carrying that load.
Darcy: Right. I love that, right? You know you're on the right track if you feel a little lighter, right? I was like that was something I was carrying, that was, it was too heavy.
Laura: Yeah, and and it wasn't serving me, you know, I think it's so important to know that so many of these stories at go there at one point cause they did serve, serve some purpose, the purpose of keeping us lovable and acceptable, you know, accepted, loved and accepted and seen, were our, you know, previous generations. And then it can be like our systems can be a little reluctant to let those go. Do you have any parting wisdom for those of us who maybe have some, some sticky thoughts that just keep coming and, and won't be replaced. And this is something that we're looking to, to never, you know, have any more of these negative beliefs, you know, what does it, like, is there an end point? Have you ever done, you know, what does that look like, just the kind of the ongoing nature of this work?
Darcy: I mean, I mean, the reality is we are, nobody's arrived. Nobody's done or perfected or figured it all out. I think when we can just embrace and accept and allow the messiness of our journeys, are just part of, part of being human, part of, you know, learning and growing and that there's always more to learn and grow from. I think that just To take the pressure off ourselves, right? If, if what we do is just notice, you know, oh yeah, I'm having that thought again, right? That's, that's still a step in the direction of uprooting it from being the only possible thought I can have at this moment. I just recognized this as a thought and it's not making me feel very good right now. You know, we can, we can be at that for however long. We are at that. There's no, there's no right or wrong or timeline for, you know, the journey of our own self-awareness or our own healing, right? But I think any time that you do recognize, right, a limiting belief and just be able to say, maybe that's maybe that's not the only way to look at this, right? Is to encourage ourselves by celebrating and feeling proud of noticing, like the little things when we can just, you know, be proud of ourselves. Like, oh, I observed a thought right there. That's great. That's more awareness than I've had before, where I just let the feelings swoosh me away and, you know, there is, there is no, there's no thought present, you know, I recognize the thought. Good for me.
I am becoming more aware and I think just that encouragement to ourselves, right, of the little, the little wins is kind of what I like to do with, with,parents, right? When we, when we're checking in, it's like, let's also celebrate, let's celebrate the wins. They don't have to be huge, but like getting our brain focused on all the things that we are doing that are working for us, I think that encourages us. It gives us the belief that we can You know, create more and more of the reality that we want, that we can do this work, that we can step away from old beliefs that aren't serving us anymore. We can create new ones. You know, it really does, I really do feel like it gets rooted in that. That is the practice of celebrating and feeling proud. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Laura: Oh my gosh. Darcy, I really, really love that. I think that so many of them, I, you may have experienced this too, but so many of the parents that I work with, are self-described perfectionists. And I think at the root of perfectionism really is all or nothing thinking. And what you're asking, you know, is I can hear some people thinking like, well, that might be great for you, Darcy, but If it's not perfect, it's not good enough, you know, like I'm celebrating the small winds. You know, for for some people who are so used to being so hard on themselves and demanding perfection of themselves, it feels it feels like a hard thing to do, you know, but I really like that invitation to just being able to to notice the, the small wins, the, the practice of it. And learning to be kind to yourself in the midst of it. And probably there's another limiting belief going on underneath the need for perfectionism too, right? Something's only worthwhile if I do it perfectly, right? Yeah, which, oh, it doesn't serve us at all when it comes to parenting, because there's no way.
Darcy: No, exactly. I mean, I like to think about that too in terms of observing our thoughts, like That my inner critic or my inner coach? What would, what would I like to hear if this is a lot of inner critic talking, right? Kind of critiquing everything I'm doing is not perfect enough, then what would my inner coach say? That kinder, more compassionate, more understanding voice that they maybe don't hear from very much. I might want to just turn down the volume on my inner critic for a moment and turn up the volume on my inner coach. And if it's hard to imagine what your inner coach might say to you as a perfectionist, then we might say, what would I say to a friend, right, in this moment? And so we can kind of build more of that dialogue over time if we practice, you know, what would he say to somebody else in this situation?
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Oh gosh. Darcy, thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. I love talking about this with you. It was really fun. I, you know, I always hope that the people who listen to my podcast find their teachers. I have a feeling that many of them who are listening are going to want to learn from you. Can you tell us where to find you and connect with you?
Darcy: Yeah, absolutely. I'm on Instagram. I've got an Instagram account with Darcy Harbor Counseling. You can find me there. And, the program that I, that I, that I do work with parents is called chaos.com. So you can also find my website chaos.com, and, and find more of my information and approach there.
Laura: Right. Oh, wonderful. Well, Darcy, thank you so much. I hope that we get to hang out and do this again.
Darcy: Yeah, likewise, it's been really nice, Laura, thanks so much for having me.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!