Episode 167: Sitting with Discomfort with Jenna Hermans
/On this week’s episode on the Balanced Parent Podcast, I will be joined by Jenna Hermans, a co-founder of Be Courageous and an author. We will discuss her new book "Chaos to Calm," where she shares a purposeful and all-encompassing strategy to find serenity in your daily life. During this episode, Jenna and I will dive deep into the topic of sitting with discomfort order to deepen our authentic connection with others (and ourselves).
Here’s an overview of what we discussed:
True definition of calm (it’s not what you may think!) and its importance in gentle parenting
Implementing calm in the midst of a busy life
Relationship between high performance and true calm
How learning how to sit with discomfort can build your capacity for being more calm
To help you even more, check out jennahermans.com and follow her on Instagram @jennazhermans, LinkedIn jennahermans and get the resources you need.
Resources:
Chaos to Calm - A book that simplifies daily tasks to prioritize self-care by Jenna Hermans
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen and on this week's episode of the Balanced Parent podcast. We're going to be talking about how to navigate discomfort and trying in difficult times with our kiddos and really digging in to the idea of how to be truly calm, not stuffing it, not trying to hide your feelings, but actually calm with your kids. And to help me with this conversation, I have a wonderful expert on the topic, Jenna Hermans. She wrote a beautiful book called Chaos To Calm. And I'm so happy to have her here at Jenna. Welcome to the show. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who you are, what you do?
Jenna: Yes. Thank you, Laura for having me. So I am a mom of four. I have a 16 year old, 15 year old, 13 year old and six year old. And I, I know we've got a, a broad span there. It's fun. I am the co-founder of be courageous, a transformation agency. I am the author, as you said of Chaos to Calm and I am a high performance coach.
Laura: Okay. And so why don't we dig into this topic of how to navigate difficult emotions, I think and discomfort? I think a lot of us when we were young were raised to avoid feeling uncomfortable, to get out of those feelings as quickly as possible. And so we don't know how to navigate them and then we grow up and we become parents and our kids have all sorts of negative feelings because, hello, they're human. That's just part of life and it's really hard for us to sit in those spaces with them and with our own discomfort. So, why don't you? Let's talk a little bit about it. What are your thoughts?
Jenna: My thoughts are that so often as parents, we want our kids to be happy. Right. And that's what our parents wanted for us. And so in, in the service of happiness, we we and them, our parents did the disservice of not approaching discomfort from a place of curiosity and how to have positive coping skills to work through the discomfort, sit in the discomfort but rather to be like, oh no, you're uncomfortable. Let me move you to happiness. Let's see what we can do to, to transport you from this uncomfortable situation, right? These feelings that you're feeling and put a veil on it to make you happy and in doing so we now as adults are, are set up in a way, right? We've been programmed that when we feel this discomfort, right? Whether it's stress or anxiety or whatever it is, it's like, oh no, there's something wrong with me because I don't know, I shouldn't feel this way. I should need to be fixed.
Laura: Yes. Yeah, it needs to be fixed. What are the consequences of that for us? What, how do we experience those consequences? Like the you know, what is the outcome of that suppression, that kind of masking?
Jenna: You know, on an extreme level, mental illness, right? Depression, anxiety, eating disorders, you know, all these different ways of, of what I would like to call negative coping skills. Maladaptive attempts to, to cope.
Laura: Yeah.
Jenna: Yeah. And so that that's on the extreme end and on the non extreme end, there's overwhelmed, there's constant stress which leads to physical health issues, right? With cholesterol levels going up in your heart having a hard time and you know, a hair loss, sleep loss, all of these things that physically happen to our bodies because we are not in processing our emotions in a healthy way.
Laura: Yes, I love that. Okay. And so for those of us who grew up in homes where we weren't allowed to have our feelings and they were, we were shoving them down and now we're faced with kids and we're attempting to show them in another way and we all we hear in the respectful parenting world is to share your calm, lend them your calm. And most of us don't literally don't even know what that means. We just think that means stuffing stuff down your feelings, put on your Mary Poppins voice and you know, okay, sweetheart, I see you're having a hard time, you know, you can feel the oh the tension in your throat. What should we be doing instead? Like what does calm actually mean? Like it's not that stuffing feeling. I know that that's what we think it is. But it's not what does it actually feel like to be calm in the midst of discomfort?
Jenna: So there are actually a few answers to that question, right? All the directions go everywhere. So the definition of calm is when your nervous system is not reacting to something outside of you in a negative way, right? So you're not feeling fear, you're not feeling scared or rather you're feeling them, but your nervous system let me back up, you're noticing these things but you're not, but you're, your body is not responding with flight, fight or freeze, right? So calm is really about your nervous system. And when you have a relationship between how you experience the outside world and how your body is reacting, right? When you understand how your body reacts to context and events, then you have a better opportunity to own your nervous system responses, right? Because so often, right? Like our nervous, our nervous system doesn't know the difference between seeing a tiger and thinking holy cow. I need to run because it's going to eat me or getting a call from our boss. That saying, you know, you're late on a deadline, right? It doesn't know the difference. It says your life is in danger, react, right? And when in fact, you know getting the call from your boss is not a life or death experience, your body doesn't actually need to release that amount of cortisol that then you know, stimulates all the other responses in the body that make you stressed, overwhelmed your body. You know, the, the sweat that starts and the headache and all the other ones that are, yes. So calm is from my definition, one, it's, it's understanding what's happening in the environment allowing yourself to interpret it. Right. And to get your nervous system regulated and to get your nervous. And a lot of people think that, you know, you have, like you were saying, like you have to be Jen, you have to have quiet and slow in order to be calm or to squash it down and just put on a happy face. But truly calm is about flow, calm is about being able to be in your best state. Yes, it's different for everyone.
Laura: Yeah. And you know, I love the, you know, when we look at regulation, everybody thinks about down regulating, but sometimes you need to upregulate too. So self regulation is about having the energy and ability to meet the demands of the environment that you're in. You know, sometimes there's times where, you know, if you are at like, you know, a big like crowded amusement park with your kids and they're running everywhere. You need to be a little activated. You know, you can't just be chilling calm, you know, and slowly meandering while they're running ahead.
You know, you need to be at a kind of an excited level in a good way, in a positive way, not a super stressed way but to keep up with them, you know, and so I, I love that you're talking about the nervous system that way, it's really helpful. How do you recommend parents who maybe are just in the early like noticing phase? Right? So like that noticing comes first, that awareness comes first and they're noticing. Okay, so these things are happening, I'm giving them a story. My nervous system is getting activated. How do they start that process of learning how to get in tune and start regulating?
Jenna: So the first thing to do is to validate, to validate yourself, validate your kid, right? And when you're feeling the emotions that you're feeling, the things that are starting to show up, like, you know, you're at the amusement park and you can't find your kid, right? They run ahead and you're running after them and you're stressed because they're running ahead. Validating. Yes, this is a stressful moment and why, why I'm feeling overwhelmed because I can't keep up with my kid, right? And that's, that's difficult. And if we were to take ourselves, let's let's maybe use a different example than the amusement park because that's a very unique situation, not an everyday situation.
And I would love for your listeners, right? For all of you listening to bring this back home a little bit. So let's say your, your kid threw blocks or a toy at your other child at their sibling and you're so angry, stop throwing blocks and they, you know they're throwing blocks, maybe it's the older kid throwing into the younger kid or something. Let's say that that's the example. And so firstly validating yourself, validating your kid of understanding what's going on for you and your child. So for your child, it may be that we'll just say he that Peter, right? Peter, the your elder child is having a rough day is their younger sibling seems to always get what they want and Peter doesn't get what he wants and, and he's so frustrated with his younger siblings. So he throws the blocks at him because the sibling wants the blocks. He doesn't want to give them over and he's going get out of here little kid, you know, throwing the blocks and so going over and saying I understand you're so frustrated with your brother because he wants the blocks and you don't want to give it to him. You want to play with them, you're playing with them first. And that helps to the validation of someone's emotions, helps to calm the nervous system straight away. You know, you realize, okay, I'm safe to feel what I'm feeling. I don't need to squash right. Squash it down. I don't need to pretend.
And as an adult we do that all the time, right? That we feel like I my emotions are not valid. I should not be feeling this right now. So the first thing is validate understand and approach with curiosity, right? If we're not with, whether it's your kid or with yourself going, hm. Why, why is my body responding this way? Why am I feeling this way? What's going on that's leading me to feel so anxious or so upset or have this reaction? Right? And it could be earlier in the day, right? Might be, oh, Peter, don't throw, you know, the blocks at your brother and then come the end of the day, Peter, stop it. Oh my God, I've asked you so many times, you know, and being able to look at yourself with curiosity and say, why is it now that I'm, I'm responding with this much bigger emotion and bigger response than I was than I did earlier in the day.
Laura: Yeah. Why do you think that that happens to us as parents? You know, what is your hypothesis? You know, if you were that this, this is happening for you, why would it be that, you know, earlier in the day we have the capacity to stay calm, but later in the day, we have less capacity. What are some of the things that are getting our way? The roadblocks?
Jenna: Oh my gosh. I mean, everything the day, you know, we start off the day where we hopefully right that we wake up, it's all fresh. We have the best intentions for going out and having patience and creative problem solving and being the best parent partner, boss colleague that we can be. And as the day goes on, we get fatigued, right. We, we get decision making fatigue. We have the energy drain. We are giving so much of ourselves in so many ways and we tend to not refuel ourselves during the day.
Laura: Yeah. I feel like we do things that we think are going to refuel ourselves that actually drain ourselves even more like scrolling through Tik Tok. You know what I mean? Like I feel like there's things that we could be doing that would make us us have more capacity, kind of widen that window of tolerance and yet we don't do that and we go for things that, you know, we think are going to be good because they give us a quick hit of dopamine, but they also contribute to a more activated nervous system. You know what I mean?
Jenna: Absolutely.
Laura: Like the social media and those things.
Jenna: Oh yeah, or you know, the idea in the afternoon, I used to get such a strong sweet tooth around 23 o'clock, right? And so what would I go for? I'd go for the closest sweetest thing that I could find. And in turn, truly, that would reduce my energy so much versus grabbing something that was healthier or drinking water, something that I know would actually fuel me and give me energy versus that temporary, right? Like you said that temporary dopamine effect of like, oh that just tastes so good, but it didn't fuel me in the long run. It just tasted nice in the moment and not to say that that's not valid in of itself, have the nice tasting thing. But if we're trying to have that sustained energy and not be yelling at our kid at the end of the day, right? Or have more patience throughout sustained throughout the day. It really is being intentional about what am I doing with those times in between when I do find myself in low energy, how do I bring myself back up or how do I have moments throughout the day where I'm anchoring in energy, giving, behaviors and habits and doing things that fill me so that I can have sustained energy throughout the day?
Laura: Yeah. Okay. So can you give our listeners some ideas of what those might be like? Even if they're just the things that you use? I can share some that I use? But what are, can we like generate some ideas for our listeners for things that can refill that cup kind of give you that more sustained energy?
Jenna: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So there's connection is one of them, I'd say like connecting with someone you care about, right? Whether that's a text or a phone call and I'm not talking, you know, scrolling on social media, not, not social connection, but rather, or I guess it is social connection but not on a, on an app. Actually, I use Marco Polo. I love it.
Laura: I love Marco Polo. I was reading a research study earlier this week. This, over the weekend. I know this is so nerdy but I was, that's what I do with my free time sometimes. But they were, they were looking at the connection quality of different types of interaction that you can have with your phone. And video chats are like the highest but audio phone like audio phone calls are also quite good and texting is at like the bottom of the list. Like texting doesn't even like bring us and like even close to the level of connection that we are we really are looking for as humans. It was a fascinating little thing to read. Yeah, but I think Marco Polo is really cool. Yeah. You know, I mean, the, I mean, so the thing, people who don't know what Marco Polo is, it's a video kind of like a video texting thing. So you video to people and then they can join you live or they can watch it later, right?
Jenna: Yeah, essentially. Exactly. It's like a, a, a, pre-records, facetime, right? You, you record your video, send it over and yeah, they can look at it when they're ready and respond when they're ready. And it's a beautiful thing. It's, it's how I keep in touch with so many people in, in my life who don't live nearby or that I don't get to see often. So I'm so grateful for that. So connection being one way to increase energy during the day, another is movement could be going for a quick walk. I have a hula hoop right behind me here that I do throughout the day, you know, getting and just being in nature, standing outside, feeling the sun on your skin, the wind in your hair.
Laura: The grass under my feet. That's a big one for me getting that like outside getting the, the sounds of nature. Yes, I love those.
Jenna: Oh, absolutely. And it could be also like a little rest, a little mental rest. Body rest, whether that's taking a few minutes to close your eyes or that's taking a few minutes just to sit in, in quiet. Right. Or to, sometimes it could be that you're listening to music or to a podcast. Those are ways to get energy to only if they feel fuel you. Right. And I think that's one thing to call out is that every person is different and, you know, different in what fuels them. And so maybe for an introvert, you know, connection is, is not necessarily what fuels them, but reading and reading a book, you know, could be that. So there, there are various ways and I, my offer is to try, just try things and see, see what works for you.
Laura: Yeah. No, I really like that. And I, I like the idea too of modeling this for our kids, you know, saying out loud. Oh, I'm having a little bit of an energy slump. I'm gonna do X, Y and Z and see if that helps, you know, would anyone want to join me? I like it when we can involve the family in those types of things too. Although of course, we're allowed to do things just by ourselves as moms because we don't get that time enough, you know? Okay. And so I, the la I, I think one other piece that I feel like we kind of, we were touched on at the beginning is this idea of sitting in discomfort. And I really did want to just dig into this because it, it's hard for us. We, our kids, you know, are expressing some kind of displeasure and we want to make it better, we want to fix it. We ourselves are experiencing some kind of negative emotions and it's very hard to just sit in it or hold space for it with someone else. And I think that oftentimes people don't even know what that looks like because they've done it so little. Can you, can we talk a little bit about like the fundamentals of kind of sitting with discomfort?
Jenna: Absolutely. And so I to, to piggyback on what you were just saying, right, that we as parents tend to want to just move past the discomfort or scoot it under the rug. You know, an example of this, let's say is that your kid, you know, you, your family pet dies. Let's, let's use that as an example for a moment. Your family pet dies and it's sad. Right? Like your kid is probably really sad and it might be that your gut reaction is say it's okay, they're in a better place now. You know, we'll get another animal, we'll get another pet and just be like, no. And what that, that's saying to your kid, right is, it's not okay to be sad. it's not okay to feel your feelings, let's do something that's going to make you happy, replace the negative feeling with a positive one, right? Feel grateful that they're in a better place.
Be excited, we'll get a new pet versus again validating, right? Like this is really sad, you know, I, I loved our pet and I know you love our pet and let's talk about it. What, what does this feel like for you? What are you thinking about? Right? What, what's going on for you? Totally. And so by sitting with the discomfort of sadness, right? As being one of those, you know, sad, those emotions of the discomfort, sitting with it. We're modeling that one. It's ok to feel sad, it's okay to be uncomfortable and that it's it is okay. Also to lean on someone you care about to process this, right? It's, it's, it's okay to process, it's okay to take your time and to also model, being able to connect with somebody to work through your discomfort together.
Laura: Yeah, and, and use each other to, you know, to that co regulation piece I think is so important, especially with our little ones and they, they are still learning how their nervous systems work. And they need our help getting their nervous systems regulated. Okay. So the, the example of a pet dying is a big one, right? And we're talking about a kid's first experience, maybe with grief with real tangible grief and loss. And I think most parents will agree like, yes, of course, we need to be there and be present for, you know, my listeners will agree. But let's talk a little bit about the more everyday circumstances where our kids experience like the disappointment that their sibling took the last cherry popsicle and they're just losing it over the fact that they can have a cherry popsicle. It's so easy to dismiss their feelings in those moments. It's so easy to say, you know, no, you can have the cherry.
But look, there is grape isn't grape your favorite, you know, like it's so easy to do exactly that with these smaller moments. And I think it's so important to recognize that that just because it's not those big kind of life moments. Those are the small everyday ones. They're still learning how to navigate real feelings. Like the feeling of disappointment. That's a human experience that we're always gonna have. We are literally nearly every day. We're going to experience some level of disappointment for the rest of your life. You know, that's just part of it and it's not a bad thing or a sad thing or a bad way to look at life. That's just being human. You know, and I feel like we're rob, we rob our kids the opportunity to learn in a safe context when we dismiss their feelings even though I know we have the best of intentions. So how do we, I think that you did a beautiful job of talking about how to sit with the child's discomfort, the child sadness, you, you explained that very well.
But I know so many parents feel their own discomfort and they, that's what's motivating it. It's we feel so we want to relieve their suffering so much. And so like it's almost like, ok, so yes, we've got to grieve our, the pet too, the family pet, but we also have to grieve our ability that we can't make the world perfect for our kids. You know, like we, we, we can't do that. And so how, how do we as parents learn to sit with ourselves and kind of hold ourselves in discomfort when our kids are having a hard time or going through something hard so that we can't support them? I feel like this was a really long question. I'm so sorry, Jenna. But you know what I'm saying? But it's an important one.
Jenna: Yes, I do. And it's a really important one. And it's something that I've dealt with. We've all, we all all as parents, right. We all deal with that of not wanting our kid to be uncomfortable and the discomfort that we feel when, when they are suffering through something so hard that we can't fix for them. And it's hard, especially like when there's a even bigger crisis, little crisis, whatever it is, we had a big crisis in our family not that long ago. And it was, it took everything out of me. And what I realized in that, in going through that crisis was one, my children's life is not mine. Right. We have, I cannot control their lives. I can't do this for them. They need to figure it out on their own because that's, it's their life. I can help guide, I can create support. I can role model, but I can't do it for them and I can't change how they think, right? Their mind is theirs, their behaviors are theirs. But what I can do is be a part of it with them and to know for myself that when I, at night, when I'm sitting there and like, oh my God, what's going on for them right now? And I can't do anything like I can, but I can't, right. Owning what I can control and what I can't is knowing that I'm doing everything that I can do that's within my realm of control. And the rest is a part of their story. The rest is a part of their story. And that discomfort that I sit with is mine to own and I journal myself into oblivion, working through that stuff. Oh my gosh. What is that? Sorry, go ahead.
Laura: No, I was just going to ask you like, what are some of the things you say to yourself or that you recommend people, you know, that cultivating that kind of self talk? But what are some things we can say to ourselves to, to soothe ourselves in those moments when it is uncomfortable watching this happen for our kids, even the bit, you know, even the little stuff, the like, you know, sitting with a kid through not being able to have a cherry popsicle, you know, I know that that's small stuff and thank heavens it is, you know, they will experience big stuff later, you know, but when they're five, the cherry popsicle is the big stuff, you know, how, what, what, what can we say to ourselves in those moments?
Jenna: We can firstly say this is temporary, this moment in time, this discomfort that they're feeling, this discomfort that I'm feeling this is temporary. It's not, this moment is fleeting, right? It will be different in not just in a day from now, but it will be different five minutes from now, right? And that this is temporary, it's all temporary. And that by being able to feel the that discomfort, right? And be able to move through it and process it and get on the other side of it is building resilience for the bigger things.
Right. So, it's like I, I want my child to not always hear the word. Yes, I want them to not always get what they want because that's helping them build, you know, strategies to hope and move forward. Right. So that those little things now, the popsicle, which is a big thing for them, but in the grand scheme of things, right? It's a little thing, these little things add up when you can work through and process that sadness, anxiety, discomfort, overall with those micro moments, then you have a muscle that you're helping your kids to build for those bigger things because the older they get, the more complex those struggles become.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. What about for if, when you are experiencing this and the discomfort is telling you this isn't a big deal. They need to just get over this like they, they're making a mountain over Mole Mole Hill. Don't let the small stuff, you know, like those, you know, like those things that maybe we heard as kids and those, those things start coming in because I know lots of parents start to get a little afraid that if they don't teach the kids how to, you know, be tough and have grit that they won't ever have it. So what would you do in a circumstance like that where you've got some of that self talk happening,
Jenna: You know, I would go back to the validation, right? If it's a big thing for them, it's a big thing for them. And, yeah.
Laura: So what about for you? Can we talk about validating ourselves?
Jenna: Yeah. Of course.
Laura: You know what I mean? Like, like saying, like being able to say to you, like, yeah, I can see it makes sense that you'd be worried about that, you know, like just to yourself, you know.
Jenna: That radical self acceptance and validation. I, I wish my kid didn't act that way and, and oh, okay. I noticed that I'm having this big reaction to my kids big reaction, right? And I would firstly, right? Take a deep breath, they're a child, right? This is that this is them working through their stuff and as they get older, they don't have those coping skills yet. They don't know that this isn't a mountain, this is a mountain to them. So for us to say again, this is temporary, this is their emotion of where they're at right now and accepting them as they are, helps us to calm down when we, when we meet our child where they are instead of having an assumption of where they should be or what it should be like if we get rid of those shoulds, we relieve so much of our own pressure that we're putting on to our kids to be something that they're just not and or they're just not yet.
Laura: They're not ready yet. Yeah, I love that. Oh, thank you so much, Jenna. Okay. So how are some of the ways that you kind of proactively implement calm in your life? So, that's something I'd like to offer people as a kind of, as we wrap up. Our conversation are some, like, strategies and things that they can go out and do and try right away. So, so what are some of the ways that you implement calm in your life?
Jenna: Oh I mean, so many what I take care of my self care that is kind of step one for me for making sure that I'm getting my fundamental needs taken care of and that helps me with my calm and I have a fun acronym that I use for what I call the brilliant basics. And the acronym is cheer the basics of calm basics of self care and the acronym cheer C stands for connection like we talked about earlier, right? So connecting with and and it's it's connecting with what's outside of these walls, what's under this roof, what's in your device, right? It's connecting to you really but doing it through people you care about and through nature and spirit, right? Of feeling like you're more than just a mom, a partner, a business owner, right? All these labels and pressures and things that we, that we say that we are but connecting to who we are inside and feeling ourselves.
So that's number one and that could look like just sending a text to a friend or doing a Marco Polo video or just standing outside for five minutes like we talked about earlier, right? These are rejuvenating things, but they're also self care and I think very basic because we do this for our kids, right? All of these five things that I'm about to share all things, make sure that our kids do, but we forget to do for ourselves.
Laura: We do. It's amazing how we're so good at making sure kids take such good care of themselves and then we forget to do it for ourselves. Okay. So what is H? I’m excited.
Jenna: Okay. So is hydration, right? As we're sitting here with our drinks right now, it is so important, right? Making sure that I'm just getting enough water during the day. It sounds so simple, but that's what makes it a brilliant basic. The first e is along with hydration. It's eating, eating well, being mindful about putting food in me. That is fuel, right? Good fuel for me. So eating instead of like just eating the crust off my kids sandwiches or whatever their leftover is from breakfast or dinner. But making sure that I'm, I'm actually fueling my body. We make lunches for our kids, we're preparing breakfast and, and thoughtful dinners and all of this. But again, not for ourselves.
Laura: Right. Yeah, absolutely.
Jenna: The second e is for exercise, for movement. Right. Just getting some movement going and again, it doesn't, it can be just five minute walk. It doesn't need to be this whole thing of like, 45 minutes to an hour. Get your heart rate up to a certain level. It's like, that's great. Absolutely. But for us, busy parents who don't have all that time or the prioritization of time goes elsewhere, just getting a few minutes of some movement, get your heart rate up just to touch, do some hula hoop.
Laura: What I love about your hula hooping example is that it's a really embodied and joyful practice. You know, I really love movements and exercise. That is really about getting into your body and moving it with joy in a way that feels good. You know, that's not filled with shame and punishment. You know, that is really about celebrating and nourishing your body just like good, nourishing foods. I love movement that really feels good. And one of my favorite is a dance party with my girls. You know, that really just feels good where in our body are feeling juicy. It's just good.
Jenna: That's the best. I love dancing and, and that's like you put on a song, do a 2.5 minute dance party by yourself in the middle of the day and you can't go, I, I don't know how I wouldn't be able to go into the next thing that I'm doing without a smile on my face.
Laura: Exactly 100%. Okay. And so what's the R?
Jenna: The R is rest. Rest. Yes. Right. And that's an umbrella of things.
Laura: Yeah. I think in this culture we think we have to earn rest. Can we talk just for a second about deserving rest?
Jenna: So rest is, is, I mean, a fundamental need of the human body and the human spirit. It's, it is not a, a good to have, you know, at the end, it's not a bonus point that you get for having done a, you know, you've done a great job so far today. You can now go and sit down finally. Yeah. No, no. In order to show up as our best selves, right? To show up as our best for our kids, for our partner, all the things, right? If we all know the feeling of not having enough sleep, we all know that feeling and how crappy we are and, and how we show up with, you know, just we're so impatient and we are not great about being creative problem solvers and we want what's easiest, not necessarily what's best in those moments, right? But when we rest, when we take care of our energy by trying to at least get as much consistency, sleep as possible and then giving ourselves moments throughout the day to have a brain break, right to go and have that little walk, get away from the screen for a little bit that it really fuels us to come back and do better than if we hadn't rested.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I, I love the idea that rest is a human need. Obviously, you know, sleep is a human need, but talking about other forms of rest, I think it's hard for parents. You know, we feel guilty and lazy when there's so much to do, but it is a human need and it's ok to have it. Jenna, thank you so much for this conversation. I do want to make sure that our listeners can find you and find your book. So where are, where can they hook up with you?
Jenna: Thank you. So, I have a website, Jenna Herman's dot com and that's where you can learn all about my speaking and workshops. I have a blog and a newsletter newsletter goes out twice a month and so, and it doesn't fill your inbox, right? It's not a long one because we're all busy and this is about calm. So making sure that the newsletter is also calm and the book you can find anywhere books are sold online at Amazon Target Barnes and Noble as well as in your local bookstore. And if they're out of stock, just ask them to get it for you because then you're supporting local while to your calm.
Laura: Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. Well, Jenna, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to share this with us and I, I just, I really appreciate you and what you're putting out into the world so much.
Jenna: Thank you, Laura so much for having me. This was such a pleasure to connect and to have these really important talks. Thank you.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
And if you're listening, grab a screenshot and tag me on Instagram so that I can give you a shout-out, and definitely go follow me on Instagram. I'm @laurafroyenphd. That's where you can get behind the scenes. Look at what balanced, conscious parenting looks like in action with my family, and plus I share a lot of other, really great resources there too.
All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!