Episode 164: Becoming a Safe Haven for Your Kids with John Sovec
/In this podcast episode, we dive into how to become a safe haven for our children featuring, especially LGBTQIA kiddos. Our guest is John Sovec, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in providing LGBTQ support for kids and families. John is an expert in helping adolescents navigate the coming-out process and actively provides LGBTQIA+ support training. John is the author of "Out: A Parent’s Guide to Supporting Your LGBTQIA+ Kid Through Coming Out and Beyond."
Here are some of the topics we covered in this episode:
Effective ways for parents to provide support when their child comes out as LGBTQIA+
Learn how to manage the emotional journey that parents go on when a child comes out
How to create a safe and affirming home for all children
If you need support for your child’s coming out process, you can visit his websites johnsovec.com and gayteentherapy.com. To connect with him, follow his Instagram @johnsovectherapy, Twitter @JohnSovec and LinkedIn @JohnSovec.
Resources:
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello everybody. This is Doctor Laura Froyen and here we are with another episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast. And on this week's episode, we're going to be diving in on how to support our kids if they are a member of the LGBT Qi A plus community. And I'm so excited to have my guest, John Svec here with us. He is an expert on how to support adolescents through the process of coming out. And I'm, I feel like we are so so lucky to be talking to him. So John, welcome to the show. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do in your book?
John: So thank you. It's so exciting to be here to chat with you and your listeners. This is something I'm so passionate about. As you mentioned, I just wrote a book and it came out, it's called Out: A Parent’s Guide to Supporting Your LGBTQIA+ Kid Through Coming Out and Beyond and yes, I know it's a mouthful, but it's a really cool book. And I, I got involved in this type of work because during my training in grad school, I realized very quickly that there was very little training in our programs on how to support the LGBTQIA+ community and almost none in how to support kids and teens that are coming out. And as an openly queer therapist, I saw like there was a need for this, I would have wanted a therapist to be there to help me during my process, I would have wanted a therapist that could help our family and my parents go through the stuff that was challenging for them. And so this became my passion and my mission and here we are today chatting about it.
Laura: I'm so excited and I am so appreciative that you're sharing your expertise and your experiences with us. Okay. So let's dive in for parents who maybe are watching their younger kids. So my audience has anywhere from babies and toddlers all the way up through teens. If parents are have some, some suspicions, they're just noticing things about their kids, what is a, a good way to kind of just start conversations for parents or you know, even if they're not noticing anything or they just want to be inclusive in their kind of opening conversations about love and attraction.
John: Well, I think the first thing for parents to understand is anyone who has kids, they notice everything from a really, really young age. And I think any household would be smart to understand what are the, the messages that you as a family are putting about, you know, regards to how you interact or support the LGBTQIA+ community. You know, kids will notice if you're like, oh something comes on the news about gay people and you switch the channel, something comes on and it's about trans rights and you like, you know, roll your eyes, kids will pick up on this information at a very young age. But if we can instead open up a place where these can be conversations, mom, what is this transgender thing? Dad? What is it? So there is like a, a guy who loves another guy. What is that? If we can do age appropriate conversations to make this something that is just part of the fabric of your kid's life. What it does in the long run, whether they identity as LGBTQIA+ or Cs or, or, or, or heterosexual or straight that it creates an environment of affirming supportive people moving forward in the world. And if someday your kid does want to come out to you, it means they know that you are a safe haven for them to share this really personal and beautiful part of who they are.
Laura: I love that. So are there any things you know anything that you think parents of young children, especially who maybe are, you know, we were talking, you know, we gosh, I mean, we don't want to get into the conversation of how we sexualize young children and their relationships way too young anyway, but they, you know, ways to make your their environment more inclusive, more representative so that there's more diversity that they see. Like one of my kids favorite books is The Night and the Prince or the Prince in the Night. Um which is a really sweet love story, you know, are there other things that you like to see in, in family homes? So to be a little bit more representative.
John: Well, one thing that I really like to see in family homes. And so Laura and I are on video as we're recording this conversation and as you were sharing the story of this favorite book of your kid, like you got this smile and this glow on your face. And what that means is you are creating a home where this conversation is open and supported and wonderful. And that energy is actually the most important thing that a parent could bring into the space. So important to understand too. And everyone's like, oh kids, you know, they think about sexual orientation, gender identity when they're teenagers. Yes. And we understand through lots of research now that sexual orientation and gender identity show up for kids at a very young age. And often what happens is because they're in homes that are either purposefully non supportive or accidentally non supportive. They learn to mask that identity. You know, if you have a young trans kid who was assigned male at birth, but knows that they are female, but they receive messages that say like, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay. They will put on this entire persona of being a rough, tough guy. Okay? And tell the pain of holding a line that becomes so big that they have to come out and affirm who they are. So I say as parents look at ways you can have conversations about gender orientation and sexual or sexual orientation and gender identity that are age appropriate. You're not gonna talk to a four year old or a six year old about like sex, but you may talk to them about a connection and intimacy and how people can like, feel supported by each other. And then as they get older and the questions get deeper, then maybe you go more into the idea of, well, what does this look like in, in real life? But I think it's important for parents to get that little glow that you had of being a supportive parent and let that permeate the household. You know, we're all, there's, you know, so much controversy about, you know, rainbows and stuff like that. But isn't it strange that somehow a rainbow has become something that we're all fighting about now versus just seeing it as a representation of the multiple spectrums of who we all are walking on this earth. So you know?
Laura: I love that, love rainbows
John: And create the space where conversations can happen. That's where the real power of support can show up in a family.
Laura: Yeah. You know John, one of the ways that I like to do this in my family and is noticing the lack of representation and diversity of relationships in the media that my kids are exposed to. So I have two girls, they love their Disney Princess stuff and we talk a lot about diversity and representation or the lack thereof that is, you know, in a variety of ways that happens within the media that they're exposed to curiosity about those things or even when we're, you know, reading my, you know, I'm a, I'm 40 I'm still learning not to gender people that I don't know, they're pronouns. But my kids are really good at noticing when I've done that and calling me out on it, which is great. I mean, you know, just having those, those open conversations about just, just noticing with curiosity, I wonder why, I wonder, you know, have you, have you ever noticed that these, you know, these families, you know, are all have one mom and one dad. Isn't that interesting? Is that really how it is in the world? Let's think about the families that we know. You know what I mean? I, I, so that's one thing that I, I like doing with my kids.
John: And I think opening up the space for that conversation because maybe when you and I were growing up, we grew up in a slightly more sheltered energy. You know what, how we got outside information was usually by watching TV, often with the family in the evening. So if stuff came up, we'd be in that space. But now kids and even young kids are getting information from social media, from the kids around them in different ways than we received it. And so as a parent, you need to be on your toes, willing to talk about these different types of relationships that exist in the world and the beautiful, like myriad of people that exist in the world that your kids are gonna notice and see from these larger frames that they get to view the world in. And that's what's so hard for a lot of parents is because we grew up in an age where our frames were much smaller. But like you have kids in school who know that there were states that decided trans kids, you know, couldn't go to school or use their correct pronouns. They're getting these messages at a really young age and that's gonna send shock to their system, especially if they are part of the LGBTQIA+ community or questioning that they might be
Laura: Okay. And so what are, what are some other ways then? I really love that phrase “Safe Haven” that you use. What are some other ways that we can create a home that is welcoming and accepting and that kind of safe haven and maybe not even just for our kids, but for their friends too.
John: You know, I think one of the first places to start building that is kind of the journey you've had where you've talked about like discovering and trying to change your habits about gendering people, like as a parent, like modeling that space and getting some education. And of course, I'm gonna recommend my book. But you've got lots of really great information out there that allows you as a parent to learn more about my community and to understand it, not from a fear based point, but from a place of, of affirming energy. And then as you're educated, you're prepared to talk to your kids about some of these deeper issues. It's also about, you know, everybody had that one household when they grew up where like the parents were the ones everybody wanted to hang out with. You know, we always ended up staying there a little bit. Like, can I stay for dinner tonight? The way we become one of those houses but is by opening up the energy of love, acceptance and kindness to the kids that show up in our world. And I know that's asking a lot of parents this day because there are so many burdens on your plate, you know, just to keep your household together. But what a difference it makes because I imagine every single one of you is listening, remembers that one house that you could always go to and feel safe. And wouldn't it be wonderful if you became that house for all types of things, for all types of conversations and letting kids know that they can come there and just be exactly who they are.
Laura: I think that that is such a beautiful goal being a space where kids can come and be exactly who they are when we're talking about any aspect of a child's self, you know, um, I think most of the parents that I work with are really, really working towards accepting exactly who this child is learning about who they are, you know, learning alongside them as they grow up and find themselves. Um, I, I think that this conversation is, is good for all of us to have. So I really appreciate that. Okay.
John: And I, I actually want to dissect a word that's, that's really interesting. And it comes from kids who have all kinds of unique differences that actually I think is really exciting and it is the word that we all throw around called acceptance. And I actually push back against that, especially in the work that I do with the LGBTQIA+ plus community. Because if we look at the nugget of the word acceptance, it means I see there's something different about you, but I'm gonna overlook it and accept you. So we're saying there's something wrong with you, but see I'm the bigger person. So I like to remove the word acceptance from conversations and move towards affirming, a place where I see you for exactly who you are and I affirm it 100%. I am an ally. I am walking by your side and together we're going to explore this world and knock down any barriers that are in your way. But the difference between acceptance and affirming is really really important for me, not just in this work with the queer community, but what if we look at all the differences the kids show up in the world and we affirm them for it and accept them for it.
Laura: Yeah. Oh, I really love that. Um Yeah, thank you for bringing in that really like nuanced language change. But you're so right. It is so important to really be thinking about those things. Okay. So affirming, what does that look like in practice with parents and kids?
John: So one of the first places I think it shows up is when your kid reaches a point where they are ready to come out to you and you have to understand that even in the most affirming households, like people who have made an effort like you to create a space where conversations have gone on since they were, your kids were young, is in that affirming space. Your kid is still going to be incredibly anxious. Their heart rate is gonna be through the roof, their palms are gonna be sweaty, they're gonna be nervous and their system is gonna be totally out of whack. And the reason is, is because there is so much history of rejection of LGBTQIA+ communities that your kids are aware of that and they're going to feel that no matter what the moment is. So when your kid sees you as a person that they want to share their identity with the first thing that a parent needs to do is open your arms, hug your kid close and tell them “I love you.” It's as simple as that. And what that does is that creates a space where it's not about, you know, what does that mean? What is it about? How long have you? But it's not about the questions. It's about this foundation of like come here, you, you beautiful soul. Let me hold you close and let you know that you're okay, you're safe. I love you. And that helps take the anxiety out of the moment for your kid. It helps ground them into the idea that this household is affirming and is going to be a place where they can explore their identity as they move forward. You can deal with the other stuff later. But that's the first step of creating that most powerful affirming connection with your LGBTQ kid.
Laura: Okay? I, you brought tears to my eyes. I'm imagining some of my close friends who did not have that experience getting that and how meaningful that would have been. What are some things that a supportive loving parent might accidentally say in an attempt to be supportive that might actually land in a harmful way like, oh I know or you know, like we knew that, you know, some something you know where that might unintentionally like, yeah, land in a way that hurts a kid.
John: Well, if I think if judgment comes into the conversation in any way, shape or form that, that can harm that initial contact and any ongoing questioning and sharing that may go on in the family. So I think it's important for parents to be aware. What are my feelings about this? My kid has come out to me, they've said they're non-binary. Wow. What does that mean? What does it feel like? To me, let me talk to my partner. If we're in that type of relationship, how are we going to work with this? So to for parents to work through their own feelings really important, separate from their kid? Because obviously the parents will try and work their feelings out with their kid is that's where some of the harmful phrasing might come out because a parent is still finding their way through it. And I encourage all of my parents when their kids come out to take a moment and make sure that they're taking care of themselves and their own emotional needs. Because as any parents, even a affirming parent, a loving parent towards your queer kid, you're gonna have big feelings in this moment. And so you need to step back and manage your feelings before you deepen those conversations with your kids. The other thing that I always say is do not try and be the cool parent because your kids will put a pin in that balloon and it will burst really quickly instead listen to them and learn the language they're using to describe who they are as they move through the world. You know, I get so many phone calls and emails like my kid used this word. What does it mean? It's like, okay, well, here's some basic ideas of what it might mean and now that you have that the best way to find out what it means is to ask your kids so how does that show up in your world? What does that look like in your day to day experience? Like what, what does being bisexual mean as you go to school every day? Like being curious about how it shows up in the framework of their life rather than like, oh I heard bisexual, I heard this funny joke about bisexuality. That's how I'm gonna treat my kid. Now learn about it, understand it and then say to your kid. So how does this show up in your day to day life?
Laura: I really like that question. How does this show up in your day to day life? You know, taking that position of curiosity is something that every parent I work with is where, you know, that's one of the first things that we start doing is cultivating curiosity for yourself, your experience and for the other person's experience. I really like that phrasing.
John: Well, and the powerful way to step into that is always use the how the why not the, what the whys are really dangerous because that turns into parent interrogation and the minute you hear the why coming at you as a kid, you, like all your defenses come up and you're like, no, you will not get inside.
Laura: Yes. Exactly. And that's on any topic. Like, I mean, so when I'm teaching class, word of problem solving for parents, I tell them to stay away from the word why it's just the least helpful of the W questions, you know, oh why man? They, it's, they, it shuts down conversations for sure. How does that show up for you in your daily life though? I really like that question because
John: Because that's the thing too is like the way I walk through the world as a queer man is going to be different than someone you meet who is basically my same age who grew up in a different experience. You know, a great example is to understand with my husband. So I identify as queer, which really works for me as being a gay man who also is an educator and advocate and activist in the community. And it really makes a statement for me about who I am, especially because it's a word that used to be derogatory towards our community. So I'm taking ownership up and say, yeah, those words don't work against me anymore. And I'm here to help you learn my husband just because of his experience, he, he calls himself gay. Once again, that is the piece of this identity that feels most authentic for him. So we never want to assume pieces of this and we want to understand the, the energy that goes behind how we make these decisions and how we identify into the world.
Laura: Beautifully put. Thank you for bringing that clarity to us. Okay, so if there was one thing that you could tell parents on this topic, uh, just one take home point, what would it be? What would be the one thing?
John: Can I have two? You can have two? Yes. Okay. The first one I want to share is a pretty deep one. And this is understand that you as a parent, when your kid comes out to you, you are going to go through a grieving process and this is a very important thing to understand. But I want parents to know you're not grieving that your kid came out to you. What you're grieving is the dream that you had of your kid's life. So every parent when your kid is born and they put them in your arms for the first time, you look down into the little one's eyes and you project forward an entire lifetime for them, filled with all of your dreams and aspirations. And then when your kid comes out to you that dream shatters and you as a parent need to take some time to recognize, to grieve that, to move through the release of that dream. And then you can step forward and meet this amazing new kid who has presented themselves to you and see the dreams that they want to create going forward in their lifetime. And some of them may be really similar to the ones you all imagined before. And some of them may be quite different. But until a parent can release, can release that old version of who they thought their kid was going to be, there's gonna be some barriers in the way. So I let both parents and kids know that this process is taking place. And then the other one and this one is you gotta take it all with a grain of salt because you are gonna mess up as a parent, you are going to mess up. I do this work every day. I'm a part of the community and there are moments when I mess up in the room, I have misgendered people. I have like followed a definition and kind of had my own idea of what it was and missed something. And I do this every single day. This is part of the work that I do my passion in this lifetime. Parents, you are going to mess it up and it's gonna be okay. The best way to handle it is take a deep breath, apologize, ask for information and move forward, but it's okay. You are going to mess it up and let's put it this way you could be the best parent of doing this and your kids still gonna tell you how you mess it up. So that's their job, especially as adolescents, that's what they're supposed to do. So just be okay with the fact that you are gonna stumble. You know, you were telling earlier that sometimes your girls catch you with, you know, the gender thing and it's okay.
Laura: It is great.
John: You're gonna mess up and I think this expectation of perfect parenting puts too much weight on any parent's shoulders.
Laura: I so agree. These were the two take home points that I feel like we just need to understand in general like, I want all parents releasing the fantasy that they've built up for their kid in all ways so that when they don't go to college and they go to trade school instead they, they understand there might be a grieving process and you have to let those things go because it's the kids' life, you know what I mean? It's just like there's we, we do build this fantasy of who our kids will be and who the, what relationships will be and, and letting those things go is part of becoming more conscious as a parent anyway. But I love, I really love the invitation that, you know, to accept the fact, not accept. Sorry. No, except the fact that you're gonna make mistakes, you know, that it's just part of life, you know? Okay, one last thing and then I, you know, because I don't wanna take up too much of your time and I so appreciate you sharing with me. All of this takes a, a toll, a stress on the kids and on yourself. So how would you recommend parents can go about supporting their kids getting kind of the, you know, taking care of themselves, like really having some nourishing self-care practices through like the coming out process and, and for parents yourself and for themselves too.
John: So especially when it comes to your kid coming out to you. And that whole process initially, that's gonna be the number one piece of their identity and it's probably gonna be the number one subject in the family's plate for a while and that gets really exhausting for everybody.
Laura: Yes.
John: And as time goes on, it'll maybe go like down to number three, maybe number seven. Like it doesn't have to be the number one piece of the conversation in the family. And there have to be times where you as a parent are willing to say it's okay that I don't need to have this question answered today. It's okay that I don't need to delve into, you know, the three other books that John recommended. You are going to read my book, but you don't have to read the other three right now that it is okay to take a a process and developmental break and just be a family together, do something ridiculously fun that you all love, you know, have a Star Wars movie night, you know, bake with your kids, go to the park and do whatever it isy ou love to do that. Those breaks are really, really important, especially when we're, we're working through something that we feel is, is really deep for the family. Those breaks are really vital. As a parent once again, you need to create space for your own processing. So find a therapist who can be affirming and supportive of you as you move through this process because remember coming out is a family process as well because as things expand and your kids identity becomes more, more authentic to them. Then how are you gonna come out to extended family? How are they gonna come out at school? How will that affect how they walk through their community? All of these things are coming into play. So you as a parent are gonna need spaces for yourself, whether it's with a therapist or joining a group like P flag, which is parents and friends of lesbian and gay kids, which also is really, really strong in supporting parents with transgender and non-binary kids. Like find those places where you can get your support too. And once again, know that you are allowed to take a break from all the processing and go take a spin class. You're allowed to take a break from all the processing and curl up with a book and a cup of tea. And read a really, really trashy summer novel. You are allowed to do all of those things even though it might feel like you're in the middle of this big, big hurricane of identity development.
Laura: Thank you for that permission. I'm I'm sure that can is super important. Okay, so one, the last thing that I always like to end on with my um guests is to find out what you personally like to do to help, like, refill your cup or recharge you because we're always looking for good ideas.
John: Oh, I've got a good list here. So I put the book one in there because I'm an avid reader. My husband and I usually have four or five books going at any one time and we're like throwing them back and forth to each like, oh, this is amazing you have to read it. So, book readers, I love to go hiking. I'm here in Pasadena. We're right up near the mountains. So five minutes away. I can just be up in nature, which is one of my biggest, like, fill up my soul places. I'm a gardener. I love yoga and my thing and everybody who knows me knows this. It's like, yeah, it was a really intense day. I'm going to bake something. I am a baker and the people in my life love it when I have a really long or intense day because they get the treats that go with that.
Laura: Yeah. Do you have a favorite recipe that you're making right now.
John: So I am famous for my Snicker doodle cookies.
Laura: Oh,yum.
John: They're very, very well received throughout the world. And then this is a random one, but I also make a really good sticky toffee pudding.
Laura: Oh, yum. The sound delicious. I'm also a baker. All of those, all of the things you listed are like my go to as well. So we we're kindred spirits in that way. Okay. Well, John, this is lovely talking with you. You've got your new book out and I want to make sure everybody knows exactly where they can find it and find you if they need to reach out for more support.
John: So you can find me at my website, which is johnsovec.com, johnsovec.com. You can also find me at gayteentherapy.com and the book, of course, it's on Amazon and you can order it there to get it Out: A Parent’s Guide to Supporting Your LGBTQIA+ Kid Through Coming Out and Beyond. And of course, I'm on social Insta John Civic Therapy. Come take a look.
Laura: Great. Okay. Well, John, it was so awesome to connect with you. Thank you so much.
John: Thank you.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!