Episode 151: Helping Our Children Develop Self-Discipline with Carol Muleta
/On this week's episode on The Balanced Parent Podcast, I will be joined by Carol Muleta and we will be chatting about how we can help our children develop self-discipline and resilience. Something that I know we all want for our children but that can be difficult to figure out how to nurture respectfully.
Carol Muleta is a Parenting Strategist and Consultant. She created The Parenting 411, a portal where she engages parents and awakens the JOY in their journey with her fresh approach to addressing challenging behavior, building strong family connections, and fostering children’s success in school and in life. Carol teaches parents through workshops, webinars, group coaching, a parenting radio show and a podcast.
Here's an overview of what we discussed:
Self-discipline and resilience: Why it's important
5 C Model for building self-discipline and resilience in children
To help you even more, check out carolmuleta.com and follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter and get the resources you need. She also has a wonderful podcast called The Parenting 411 that I was recently a guest on, so check that out as well.
I am also so excited to share this great news with you that I am honored to be one of the speakers at Carol's Parent In Purpose Summit, a 3-day virtual event packed with amazing information and resources on mental health, parenting strategies, and self-care! Host Carol Muleta is interviewing me on Parenting as a Team. Join us on February 22 – 24 at 9 AM ET! This summit is a bit different in that there is a registration fee, I just want to be totally upfront about that! Check it out by clicking below:
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Dr. Laura Froyen and on this week's episode of The Balanced Parent Podcast, we're gonna be talking about how we can support our children in developing self discipline and resilience. Something that I know we all want for our kids. And to help me with this conversation is my colleague, Carol Muleta. I'm so excited to have you here with us, Carol. Thank you so much for being with us and welcome to the show.
Carol: Thank you so much, Dr. Laura.
Laura: And so tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do. I know you got a great radio show yourself. The Parenting 411. I'd love to know just a little bit more about you before we dive into this conversation.
Carol: Absolutely. Well, I am a parenting strategist and consultant, but it all starts with the fact that I am the mom of twin sons. They are now 22 years old. College graduates. Soon to be 23 years old. And they really started me on this journey of discovery. I have been doing this work since, yes, pretty much since they were about two years old. I've just been immersed in parent education and I have a parenting podcast. Parenting 411 podcast. I did host the Parenting 411 radio show for about six years.
I've stepped away from it for a moment just so that I could really put more attention into the podcast. I also work with parents through workshops, webinars as well as public speaking. I speak at conferences for corporations as well. They want me to speak to their employee resource source groups and, what I like to say is that I guide parents and discovering the joy in their journey with a fresh approach to managing challenging behavior to building strong communication between parent and child and just cultivating strong family relationships. I think that is so important.
Laura: I love that, You know, I feel like I've been having a few conversations with parents recently about how hard it can be to be a parent and how different it often is. And we thought it was going to be, you know, that we, you know, we think it's gonna, it's gonna do something different for us. I don't know, like I, I went into parenthood with these kind of rose colored glasses and had all these ideas about how it was going to be.
And then the reality of it can sometimes feel like it's sucking the joy out of the moment and there's so much service and, you know, kind of, yeah, service to others. And so much of the message that we have to put ourselves on the back burner for our kids. And I love that message that we can actually enjoy parenting, that we get to enjoy parenting that we chose to have a family for because it was going to bring good things into our lives. And yeah, I love that. Thank you for spreading that message. I think it's, we need to hear it.
Carol: I like to take parents back to that moment when they discovered they were gonna be parents.
Laura: Yeah, the wonder, the curiosity. Who will they be? Who will we be? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, onto the topic of building self discipline and resilience. Why is that something that is so important to you? Why do you think it's something that parents should be thinking about and considering for our kids?
Carol: Absolutely. I just feel that that is a tremendous gift that we can give our children if they can go out into the world, doesn't mean that they're always gonna get things right. But just self discipline is just a tool kit that they have, that they can rebound quicker from the mistakes that they do make. And that they just have a more confident sense of self, and self worth and it just starts when it's great to start when they're younger.
When they don't, especially like little kids that just aren't as inhibited. They're not as self conscious yet. Right? And so when they were little children, they want to help, they wanna do what you do, they see you making dinner or they see you ironing clothes or something like that and instead of shooing them away to, you know, go play or, you know, this is something I need to do. Take a moment and teach them how to do things. Add to their toolkit and, you know, those tasks build on each other because when they encounter something that's very difficult, then they can say, well, oh, I remember when I didn't know how to tie my shoes, for example.
And think about and remember how hard they had to work at it, how hard they had to practice at it. So, you know, I was able to do that. So now I'm gonna be able to do something else like sew a button back on my shirt or something like that. That's something that I can learn. And I know that I'm mentioning old fashioned skills right here. But in addition to their functionality, there's also, you know, fine motor skills, neurological development that happens with that. And we can't forget about those things.
Laura: Absolutely. No. This summer, I taught my daughter how to, how to mend and it was a beautiful conversation. She's seven. She's starting to do some needlework at her school. She goes to a school that has hand work as one of the components of their education and it was such a lovely conversation to talk about. Okay. So we have this, this pair of pants that has a hole in it and instead of throwing it away, we're going to, you know, conserve materials and treat our earth kindly and do this thing where we're sewing it together.
And it was a lovely conversation and good for her, for her spirit, for her soul, for learning how to care for things for and for her fine motor skills. Right. She's still learning how to, how to write. I mean, those she needs those muscles to that she uses in mending to write. I love that perspective. It's interesting. This word self discipline. I think about, I've been thinking about it just as we've been talking. I feel like that's a skill that lots of grown ups don't have.
Carol: And that's what has made it so important and just such a point of interest for me because like, we're seeing people that, whether it's teenagers and adults who are like resorting to violence because of simple things. I mean, you know, they lost their job. Yes, I know. That can be a major thing, but you can still live. I mean, breathe and figure out a solution. There's probably somebody, you know, that can help you fill out an application or they may have a job.
You know, you just never know someone else can help you with a solution. Or as a matter of fact, if you think about it long enough, you might be able to think of a solution. You know, there's, you know, here not too far from me over in Maryland, a young man brought a gun to school because a girl broke up with him and shot people and, you know, and, and killed a couple of people. And so it's about being able to, that self discipline and self control is what will really help you to step back and, you know, acknowledge your feelings. I'm mad, I'm disappointed I can't believe that happened to me or whatever. And then think about what you're going to do about it.
But recognize that whatever choice you make, it may have, it will have an effect on other people. Okay. You know, you need to solve your problem. But remember there, depending on which road you take, other people could be impacted and that needs to be considered. And I just feel like there's just this, you know, anything goes kind of mentality like and the people just they, they feel what they feel and they just act on those feelings and there's just, you know, painful, tremendous consequences for those around them. And so I feel like that foundation of self discipline, I mean, in the beginning, it's external disciplining were the parents and we're guiding them. And so that's why I created a five framework or helping to cultivate self discipline in your children.
Laura: Okay. I'm so excited for you to share, share that with us. And I just want to like, acknowledge to that for many of us were growing up alongside our kids and so wonderful, beautiful listeners, be kind to yourself as we are talking about these, this five C model that Carol is about to share with us. Be just be so kind to yourself and notice and recognize that maybe these are some of the things that you need to work on to, helping your child, cultivate these skills and these abilities. You might recognize that you also need, need support in cultivating these skills and abilities for yourself.
There's so many of us who are growing up alongside our kids who are discovering that we were never given the skills that we needed. And we want something different for our kids. And part of this is recognizing, no, we have to start walking the walk for our kids. We have to, we have to start with ourselves sometimes too. So, I'm really excited for you to share these five C’s and take a look at it from, just from that angle of like these are for kids, but they're also for me, you know? Okay. So tell us what they are.
Carol: So for starters, it's all about connection. Like getting to know your child, having genuine affection for your child and a genuine interest in your child as a person. Not just not just this child that you've got to tell what to do and when to do it and all of that. But this person and, and it's reciprocal. You know, them getting to know you as mom, as dad and as this person like you used to be a child too.
I mean, you know, all of that like really getting to know the whole person and I that connection piece is so important. And as I like to tell parents, connection comes before correction. Children can't take instruction from you and relate, and soak it up, if they don't believe that you're coming from a place of love and concern for them as a person and not as opposed to coming from a place of power. Just because you can, just because you're bigger, you can tell them what to do. So definitely connection before correction.
Laura: Love that.
Carol: And so, and then second, it's clear and concise communication. So they just got here, like I sometimes when I was teaching parents of really small children, like, remember three years ago, they weren't even here. They're still discovering what this place is all about. And so it's about telling them. Don't assume that they know what to do. Even if they've seen you do something. Communicate your expectations to them, take time to teach them and train them and you know, address any questions that they might have. And so the next thing is to…
Laura: Hold on, I want to just highlight the concise piece of that too. I love that you included the concise because I think we can be really long winded as parents sometimes and kids need so much less than what we really need to say. You know, we want to say so much, but they don't need a lecture, right? They need concise, clear communication, love that.
Carol: And next, they need a compass and that's really where they understand the boundaries that they are operating within. Give them, you know, there's more than one way to get things done. You know, because children, you know, that encourages children to really use their creativity. They, they're seeing all of these things for the first time. They were only, they didn't, they just got here three years ago, they just got here five years ago. Like, we've forgotten how simple life sometimes can be and should be.
And so some things have to be done a certain way for sure, for safety reasons, health reasons, all that other stuff. But to the extent that they can bring some creativity or they can have some leeway with how they get things done. Allow that let them know what the boundaries are and you can speak to them in language. Like if you've done your homework, then you can have 20 minutes of screen time. You've told them the information, you've given them the information they need, I call it news, they can use news that they can act on. So they know well, if I want that screen time, I better go do my homework.
Laura: And there's room for collaboration there too, especially as I get older. Okay? You want screen time? You need to get your homework done. What is, like, what's our plan? What plan can we come up with so that you and I both feel comfortable about you having screen time and we both feel comfortable that the homework is gonna get done, right? Like those, that collaboration is a piece to that as they get older can be so helpful and developing that…
Carol: … helpful, especially when you've already been doing that from when they were younger. Because if you, you know, it can work obviously if you, if they're older, if they're in middle school or high school. But remember then they're kind of, you know, testing boundaries, trying to, pushing away from us a little bit to figure themselves out. So then they kind of think you're just being nosy. You're, you know, you're too much into their business. But if this has already been the way that you've been operating, it makes it easier.
You know, the teen years in the pre-teen years still bring their challenges. But it can help if this is the way that you've been operating all the time. And so, you know, tell them what's acceptable behavior in certain circumstances, you know, what restaurant behavior, how they need to conduct themselves. Teach them their table manners. You can practice that at home. We used to play a restaurant at home to prepare them for when we were going to go out and do things like at a restaurant or at a wedding or something like that.
Laura: Because kids love that too when you are the, like you're the kid and they're the parent and they get to correct you and you act up and act out. Like in, you know, like if you're playing restaurant, if you let them be the parent and you be the kid, that's a very lovely way for them to learn what not to do. And also for you to learn like how you're coming off. I don't know. Restaurant. Playing restaurant.
Carol: Exactly. And, you know, at once they know the boundaries, they may have some choices to make and give them the opportunity to make those choices and experience the consequences of them. You know, it's, and consequences can be positive or negative. You know, because they may, they may work hard and be,and receive a reward for that or receive something that they want. They make the track team or they were selected for the play because they practiced so well, practiced their lines and were prepared for the audition, that kind of thing.
So allow them to experience that and allow them to own it, like talk to them about it afterwards. What do you think made the difference? Because a lot of times children think about the next thing that they don't know how to do. And so they don't like, enjoy the moment, savor the moment, to savor the success and the victory. They're just ready to move on to the next thing. So let them sit in that and let them own it then, you know, and, and be proud of themselves as opposed to us always talking about their terrific. They're wonderful. I'm so proud of you. Allow them to own. Own that.
Laura: Give them a chance to reflect, to self reflect and acknowledge their hard work and their effort.
Carol: Yes. And so, and then the last c is the consequences and that's feedback, that's a feedback loop for them. You know, they're kind of saying, well, you know, I went down this road and I didn't really like the way that turned out. So let me rethink and what's good about that even for young children is to let them know that they have, they really have a lot more influence and control over what happens to them than they think like, and it helps them to start connecting the dots. Like I didn't clean up, I didn't wash dishes as I was supposed to do.
I didn't put my toys away and that's why we didn't, we weren't able to go to the park or we weren't able to do something. And conversely, wow. I got up this morning, I got dressed quickly, came downstairs and I had time for, I had time for breakfast. Like, we didn't have to rush out the door with a pop tart in my hand. I was actually able to sit down and have some eggs and toast and chocolate milk or whatever it is and, or introduce whatever it is that they want. They can see the difference and they can see how, what they do. It's not all about mom and dad making all the rules. They have a little bit of wiggle room. They have a little bit of power.
Laura: Yes, self determination around those things. I love that you're using the word consequence both positively and negatively. I feel like in the parenting world, I don't know if you feel this way, but it gets used a lot too as a euphemism for punishment. And here, like around here and at the balanced parent, we don't advocate using punishment and we don't advocate using consequences punitively.
But even then, even when we're having that conversation around consequences, really taking a look at, even if we're not meaning it to be punitive. Like how is it experienced by the child? How, you know, how are we framing it in our mind that we're gonna use this thing to teach a lesson versus we're gonna use this to support them in making a good decision. You know, we're so if a child is coloring on the walls, we know, you know, and we don't like that as a parent, we don't, that's not something that we want to happen.
Some parents don't care, you know, and we're all allowed to have different things that we care about. Some parents don't care about coloring on the walls and that's really fun. I'm not that parent. I don't like the coloring on the walls. And so that lets me know that to set my kids up for success that the crayons have to be put away, out of their reach, that when they're in that stage and that's a consequence, but it's not punitive, it's not to teach them a lesson, it's to support them.
Carol: Right. And, and what else can happen too is you can show the child how to clean them all. I mean, you can help them, especially when they're younger. But go through the motions of cleaning the wall, like seeing that, you know, we have to restore what we have damaged, what we have harmed. And, and you know, speaking of not having consequences that are punitive and I'm sure you're familiar with the framework from positive discipline.
You know, where when you are creating, sometimes you have to create logical consequences. I mean, natural consequences take care of themselves and that's great when you can have them. But sometimes we have to set up logical consequences that flow from actions that our children take. And so, you know, if we are careful to make sure that they're respectful of the child, the consequences that we set up, they're related to the problem. So like the marking on the wall, you know, saying, ok, now we're not gonna go to the birthday party on Saturday.
On that first of all, it's awful ways. It doesn't really have anything to do with the crayon marking on the wall that's still gonna be there, by the way, even if you don't go to the birthday party. Whereas getting the materials to clean it and cleaning it together, you know, you're gonna, if it's a two or three year old you're probably doing most of the work. But for them to see that problems have to be, you know, solved. And then that is really, that's just a valuable lesson for our kids.
Laura: Absolutely. And I love the positive consequences piece too. So when my kids get ready for school with, you know, enough time to go early and play on the playground, they're so delighted and happy. When it's hard to get out of the house, you know, which it is sometimes because we're all human and we all have hard mornings and they don't get that time to play on the playground before school. They're disappointed. And those are, that's like the natural consequence, right?
So I love that you mentioned the natural consequence. I think lots of people think that logical consequences are natural consequences, natural, right? So natural, you know, just for everybody listening, a natural consequence is one that takes no outside parental intervention at all like to happen. Like it doesn't, you don't do anything, it just happened. So if a toy is left on the floor and get stepped on the natural consequences, it's broken. The logical consequence might be that the child saves their pocket money to replace it, you know? So…
Carol: Right. And I want to make sure I add the other hours that, you know, it's reasonable related, respectful and teaches responsibility, teaches ones responsibility and I, and I, responsible and I like to add that it's restores like, because sometimes, yeah, maybe it's an apology. The consequence could very well be an apology. Like, say, for example, if your child went, all, went into your neighbor's garden and plucked up all of their flowers. Right. Yeah. And something, you know, what can you do, that you can't apologize, right?
You can apologize. You can maybe help garden next time or whatever, you know. But, even an apology sometimes in some situations, that's it. I mean, because it takes a lot of courage to go and face the person that you, that you have harmed and you know, cause I think sometimes and you probably find this as well when you think about consequences. Parents are worried if it doesn't seem like the child feels enough pain. And it's not really about that. It's about addressing the needs of the situation. It's about that restoration. And so, and sometimes it is painful, emotionally painful, you know? But, and sometimes it isn't but it is still a lesson.
Laura: Yeah. And, and none of that needs any layer of shame attached to it. Right? Because it's so, you know, for most of us, I don't, I don't know about you but for most of us, the primary way we were taught, the way we learned lessons was through the very painful experience of shame, judgment, blame and guilt.
And using consequences in the way that you're describing or even just allowing for natural consequences to occur that layer of kind of emotional distress. We don't need to impose that at all. Kids naturally feel the human emotion of guilt. They naturally feel the feeling of self disappointment. They don't need anything extra from us. I feel like, you know, because they're full humans, they have the full range.
Carol: So not only that when we do add on, that's what they remember. Yes, that kind of diffuses the lesson, the finer point.
Laura: Right? So the human brain experiences shame and blame and judgment as a form of attack that puts at risk our primal need for connection and it can be very triggering for a child. It can shut down the learning centers of their brain. It can shut down the language processing centers of their brain and the emotional processing centers of their brain and put them into fight or flight, which means in our best attempt to teach them a lesson, we actually create a brain that's unable to learn too at the very same time. So it's super counterproductive even though it's hard to unlearn what was done to us and step in and embrace a new way. It's very hard. But I feel like these five C’s are good for us too. As we do that learning process, as we learn to be more self compassionate, to be more connected to ourselves. Can you remind me of the C’s again? Just list them off connection.
Carol: Yeah. So there, there's Connection, Clear and concise communication, Compass, Choices and Consequences.
Laura: Those are, those I think those are so good for us as parents too. I feel like we need those five C's just as much as our kids do.
Carol: I agree.
Laura: Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you so much, Carol. Was there anything else you wanted to share with us today? I feel like we covered so much in such a clear and concise way. It was so good.
Carol: Well, I just, I would just say again that I just feel like it's just so, such a gift we can give our children. It's a survival, it's part of their survival kit having that discipline because things are gonna happen. They're gonna meet people that, you know, when they go to school, just even going to school, they're not gonna be with us all the time and they've got to have a framework for making some decisions and have the courage in those situations when they don't know exactly what to do to know that they can reach out to someone else. Like they're not responsible for knowing how to respond to everything.
Nobody does know how to do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing efficient about us in that. It's just having the confidence and resourcefulness to go and get help, get help creating a solution or finding a solution or just drawing on past experiences, knowledge, education, whatever it is and bringing that together to solve the particular problem that is in front of them. And I just think that that's where a lot of violence disrespect and all of that just kind of comes back to this thing happened and I don't know what to do.
Laura: Yeah. And so I'm reacting instead of responding consciously. Yeah. Absolutely. I so agree. And I mean, and I just, I continue to think like our kids are our best opportunity to learn these things for ourselves too. You know, we're all learning how to be better, more compassionate conscious humans every day. And there's nothing wrong with learning this alongside our kids.
Carol: Oh, yes. I can't remember. There was a book I was reading, you know, a couple of years before I even had children and it said, I believe it was in a book by Norman Vincent Peale. And it said something to the effect that lessons that God couldn't teach you, like you, you didn't get it on your own. A lot of times he'll bring them out through your children.
Laura: Yeah. Children can be such a wonderful invitation to do our own work. Right?
Carol: Yes!
Laura: Of course. It's, it's there, it's not their purpose or their job, but it's a lovely byproduct.
Carol: Exactly. I like, I like that. You are absolutely right. Because my children, you know, they're twins, they're not identical twins and they had very different personalities, very different needs and they really pushed me to think differently because before, you know, I had them, I was very, I mean, it didn't change me completely but, you know, things had to be in order sequential and had to make sense and be logical and, and all of that and keep your emotions in check. You know, just deal with them and those two because of who they are, the temperaments they brought into this world. I had to make adjustments quickly. And so, and I loved it. It's been a wonderful journey. I wouldn't change anything about either of them.
Laura: I love that. I love that you've come to that place of peace with it too. You know, it's funny. I always think like we very rarely get the child we expected to get, but we definitely always get the child we needed, you know, and the spirited kids, I have a membership. And we talked about this a lot that without them, if we had like the easy kids, you know, the easy temperament kids, we would not have done the powerful transformative work that we do on ourselves because we've got these kids.
These kids are here to wake us up and shake us up and really make us take a look at ourselves and how we view the world and how we show up in the world. You know, the easy kids and they are out there. You know, I can just kind of handle the things. I was one of those kids that didn't force a lot of waking up and shaking up. It all kind of was internalized and they need the change to, they need, they need us to be conscious and aware. And so it's not like just if you've got one of the easy kids, you don't have to do the work.
It's just, it's, you have to be more aware and more willing to look for the work to do with those kids with those spirited kids. Man they're our partner. They really show us where the work is to do. Demand that it be done. Yeah, I love that. Carol, thanks so much for being here with us. I want to make sure everybody knows exactly where to find you, where they can learn with you and alongside you. Will you tell us where the best place to go to, to get more information from you.
Carol: Absolutely. I am The Parenting 411 on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Youtube. And I also would love to invite them to grab a free copy of my book, Mother's Work Pearls of Wisdom and Gems From My Journey. They can visit mothers work the book dot com.
Laura: Okay. I'll make sure that all of those links are in the show notes. It was beautiful having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing those pearls of wisdom with us.
Carol: Thank you for having me.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this!