Episode 64: Becoming a More Present Father with Baba of The Present Dads (Feature on Fathers Series No. 3)
/Happy Belated Father's Day to all those who identify as Dads! We see you, doing the hard work of becoming a present, compassionate father and we think you are just amazing! Partners, if you're the one who listens to this podcast but you know a dad who is heeding this challenging call to grow up alongside their kids, please share this with them so we can let them know just how much we value them!! We really couldn't do this without you!
So, were you able to listen to the episode last week on What We Need to Know About Dads? If so, I would love to know your takeaways! Are there things that resonated with you? What realizations did you have as you listened? I hope that through the episode we will understand Dads better and if you are a Dad, I hope it helped you in some ways. Of course we know that there are so many different ways to be a dad, and Ryan shared his perspective that reflected his own experience, so if things are different for you, if there were things you disagreed with, I'd love to know about those things too! I've never been a dad, so I would love to hear from as many of you as I can. Your perspectives and experiences really matter to me, and I hope I'm doing them justice in this series!
To help you (Dads) even more, I'm so happy to be inviting a new colleague and friend, Babatunji Fagbongbe for the third episode of the Feature on Fathers Series. Baba is the founder of The Present Dads community. This community came about when he realized he did not have much time with his family while working in a corporate job. And so, he committed himself to find a balance between being a father and the provider of his family. The Present Dads' goal is to help fathers spend more time with their families while also doing what they love in their careers. Yes Dads, you too really can have it all, just like us moms! *wink wink* (Ok, that was a bit "tongue in cheek" but I had to poke a bit of fun at #thepatriarchy 😂 ... We moms hear this all the time, that we can "have it all" but really what we get is burnt out trying to be all things to all people. THAT is not what we are about here, so I hope this conversation will help you figure out how to nurture your family and yourself without getting burnt out - there is an important message for ALL caregivers in this episode!).
And so, in this episode, we will be having a good conversation on what present fatherhood means and how we can achieve that. Here is an overview of what we talked about:
What does it mean to be present
What can we do to improve the quality of time with our children
Tips about balancing work and family life
If you want to be part of this community, follow The Present Dads Facebook Page and visit his website www.thepresentdads.com. Baba also welcomes any of you who want to reach out and ask for resources on how to be a present father. You can DM on his Instagram @babatunjif.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello, everybody. This is Dr Laura Froyen and I'm here with another episode of The Balance Parent Podcast. I'm so happy to be inviting a new colleague and friend, Baba of The Present Dads, and we're going to have a really good conversation about what present fatherhood means and how we can achieve that. So Baba, thank you so much for being here with us today. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Baba: Thank you very much, Laura. Hello, everyone. My name is Baba Fagbongbe on the founder of The Present Dads. Present Dad's came out of my experience. I was working in corporate UK. Then I want myself out. I didn't have time for myself. I didn't have time for my family. And it gave me a health scare, which led me on the journey to looking for a solution, trying to find balance on as I came out on the other side of that, I realized the way not off other dads like myself who were working very hard for their family. But they were not making out time for the family they were working so hard for. So that was how I started Present Dad. And it's all about community, of that's coming together to support one another, to be there for one another and also know you're not alone and, although your dream is appreciated.
Laura: Wow, what a powerful thing too. And I think you know something that you said there is that so often I think there's a lot of pressure that we don't talk about on Dad's. I think in motherhood we talk a lot about the pressures on moms, and that is true and valid. But those pressure on Dad's, too, particularly if Dad's heir, the sole provider, the sole means of income in the home. And how did you go about finding that balance for yourself, figuring out, like, How can I be successful in my career and also present in my family?
Baba: Thank you Laura. The first step for me was the awareness of the fact that things were out of balance. There was no harmony. Work was going great. I was hitting the goals that I wanted out of work and also financial goals. But then my son, who was very young then, the only way he knew to get my attention was he come and shut the led of my laptop, which broke my heart and every time he needed my attention. “I'm coming. I'll be right there. Just give me a minute.” And it wasn't only the effect of my son. That was the effect on my relationship where my wife wasn't getting enough attention because it was all about work and then I neglected myself.
So they are weakening was when I went for about six months and I wasn't sleeping and I was living on maybe an hour or two or even three hours sleep a day and then just working, working, working, which in hindsight, I can laugh about it and go. That was really, really not very wise thing to do. But I think it was the moment where I got to the point where I wasn't sleeping. That was the point at which I knew something needed to change. So awareness was the very first thing for me. It came on me externally. I didn't sort of acknowledge it myself. It was the lack of sleep that brought it home for me.
Laura: Oh, yeah, almost like your body forced you to start acknowledging it that it was time to take a look. You know, you said something there that I think a lot of us moms and dads are experiencing right now where we are with, you know, well, most of us are still working from home with our families. Our kids are home with us because we're still in the midst of this pandemic. And, you know, I think we all have these times where are the poles on our attention, whether it's our phone, whether it's work on our laptop and then our kids here and that just that poignant image of your son coming and shutting your laptop trying to get you to engage and like when I'm imagining that.
I'm imagining like these polls in your like in feelings on attention one there's like a little piece of like, I've just got to get this done, a little piece of guilt. He needs me and I can't be present for him or, if you know, it's like a moment of just scrolling on Instagram for a little bit, a little moment of break theirs. I know that I sometimes feel like can't I just have a moment to myself, You know, too. So there's all these polls, how we balance that and be present with our families.
Baba: So that's a great question and one of the first thing they'll say about that is before I used to just write my to-do list and then the cards, which one I needed to prioritize. But letting from Steve are called the Seven Habits of The Highly Effective People. Since then that I need to schedule my priorities. So the things that are important to me added things that I need to schedule, not prioritizing my to-do list, which I think is a big massive change for most of us.
Laura: Yeah, that's huge.
Baba: That's a huge one, and I think that can go a long way. So Instagram, Facebook, and all of those things, the quick fixes we all know good need to spend less time there on more than normally. But I will be honest and said there was a time after have what very hard during the day when I'm trying to get some downtime. I just stay on the screen on my phone thinking I'm decompressing and I'm relaxing. I'm just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling on.
Then I feel guilty that I have not done some of the things that were important to me and then have no spent time with the family can be see how it looks like we're just chasing our tails book, turning that around them when I say shouldn't our priorities for me now there's a particular time I go from the home office to the children. I just sit in the playroom. Sometimes just watch them do whatever they want. Sometimes it's not for the drug. Wait, what they're doing, which is great. But what I found is when I've spent that time with them. If I do need to go back upstairs to work, I go back into my work with a level of self-destruction women.
I have had some emotional deficits into the family. So as I step back into what I'm not even thinking, Oh, I need to be the family because I have been with them because their time was scheduled and even when they come in to say, admitting that I'm holding before I will Oh, I don't want them to enter abort family so people say work-life balance, but it's more of work, life, harmony work-life much. My work affects my family. My family affected my work. How can I begin to bring both of them together? Which is where, if they come into a meeting room, I try for them not situated Because it's not the end of the world. I'm strangely almost everybody just laughed. Well, just recognize. It's the life we're living in.
So I've taken a level of pressure away from myself. But I think by and large it's acknowledging family, affect, walk, walk, affect family, and sometimes obviously things that are not confidential at this course with my wife. What do you think of this? What do you think I shall do. So she's involved in my works, she even offers some suggestions that I might not have thought about. So it's bringing both lives together, unknown that they're not really separate.
But I think what will really help is to, as I said, schedule our priority. So I'm going to spend, for example, 8 to 12 working at 12 noon. I'm going to go for a walk from 5 to 7 PM That's family time. I'll just live two hours between five and seven for whatever may come on and I will know, always finish everything every day, but especially for me. And I'll see, maybe foremost meant that consciousness of the scheduling time for the family. I think it's very important.
Laura: Oh, my gosh. Okay, I feel like I could go in a million different directions, so I just want a highlight. A few things that you said First, we're going to talk about how to figure out your priorities so that you can schedule that I want to go there next. But I just want to pull out but that there's this element of, you know when you are feeling pulled in multiple directions.
Consciously focusing in on one direction allows you to be more fully in the other direction. When you need to be so dropping into the present moment with your kids in their playroom, you feel like you've filled their cups. You kind of made that deposit into the family bank account of time spent on and You're able then to be more fully in your work without carrying the load of that guilt, right?
Baba: That's correct.
Laura: Yeah, and then there's this other piece too. around just it seems like kind of yeah, let's, let's go in, then I guess into the How do we figure out then? What are true priorities are so that we can adjust our schedules adjust the way we spend our time to reflect those priorities.
Baba: Great. So a simple way to get started on that journey is to ask why maybe like five or 10 times. So, Baba, why you working 80 hours a week? I'm working so hard because I want to provide for my family while you working so hard to provide for the family because I want them to be comfortable. Why are you working so hard for them to be? What do you want them to be comfortable? Because I like my kids to have, maybe things that I didn't have green-up. Why is that important to you? Because I really just want them to be comfortable. I want them to start off better than where I started from. Why's that important to you?
As I begin to peel the layers until the layers helped me to really get to work or on a general level, I'll sit by and large. The reason most people work hard, especially dads, is to provide for their families. Family, and love for the family is the call of why they're doing it. Some people will even not buy anything for themselves. They will do it for the family. Everything is all about sometimes don't even buy anything for themselves. But they would buy for their wife, buy for the kids.
At the end of the day on people's deathbeds, nobody says, I wish I had walked more on. If anyone dies on the job, they will be replaced. They will move on, which highlights the fact that all forgive your best, do more than you paid for so that you can be paid for more than your pain and all of that. But he had in some organizations you just in number and if, with covert and everything, I think it's highlighted. The fact the family's the family is important.
So we tell her we want to look at it. I think there is no denying the fact that family is important and when you took off, how become begin to prioritize our given example and just imagine with me for a moment that we have some big rocks on. Then we have some stones and then we have sand and then we have water.
So if I'm trying to put everything in, in pocket, if I start with the sand and I start with a stone on, then I tried to put the big rocks in that bucket. It might be difficult, however, if I start with the big rocks. I put those enforced and Then I put the stones around the big rock in the bucket and then I put sand. There will still be space for the sand because it will fill the little spaces in between and then, while it might look like it's full, there will still be pockets of the species where cool filling water and what I'm trying to pass across days, the big rocks, in my opinion, are family, your health, your relationship, your fate, whatever that may be on, then the stones on the rest of it. I, in my opinion, I will probably see other stones the next.
And so if it's a case if I have just had a row with my wife, there's nowhere you can get on an email on right the best email. If I've not had enough sleep. There is no way I can be as productive as I will be and Maybe when we start looking at it from that perspective of the family health, faith relationships are very big rocks that need to go into the bucket first. And we can plan all the captains around it. It begins to help us get started on the journey of balance. I hope that was this for.
Laura: Oh, absolutely. You know, in my membership, my Balancing U membership, we have, ah, exercise that I take the members through, called the Balance Jar, where we do exactly that exercise we fill up, figure out what our big rocks are, and we fill up a jar. A glass jar with those, help us figure out what are our priorities. What are we putting in first? What? Every pouring into that maybe doesn't need to take us up a much room as it is you know like yes. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that exercise and something else that you've been highlighting here, which I don't know about if you know, this would help me.
But I am a huge kind of research nerd on what you're saying about how the different spheres of our life the works fear the family's fear and how impacted they are. It's so true, and research shows that it's actually even Mohr true for Dad's that when dads are doing well in their work, their more able to be more present with their families and by doing what I knew when they're happy in their work, when they're satisfied with their work and they're not overwhelmed or stressed out, they're able to be more present with their families there. And they're happier in their family life, too. And so I don't know if this is kind of an intuitive sense that you have about how we're family influenced each other. But what you're saying is backed by decades of family systems research, too.
Baba: That's great. And one of the people I was working with, he after a session he went to his stepson actually who they've not been so the relationship could be better. Let's put it that way. The 30 put his phone down. They think initially the son was kind of suspicious of words they say about constable strange and then they spend time. I think after a couple of times of gender, he said, You could see the confidence of the boy improving. When he went back to work, he had another level of energy that just came from. So sometimes we think by feeling the telescope as will be depleted. But actually, the reverse was the case because his own cop full-on had also experienced it in my own life as well work when I know we've spent quality time they've made me laugh for have made them laugh. We run after one another and then I come back. Even though Tab what refreshed experience they were able to go on with works of blood. It's been researched, but it's been my own gift experience.
Laura: Yeah. Oh, and it's so beautiful. You know, I got teary-eyed when you were talking there. You know it is fulfilling to see that connection and that relationship lost them. And when we are feeling good about our relationships, we feel better about ourselves, and we're able to be more fully present in all of the areas that are important to us. So let's talk a little bit about presence like what do you mean by being present with your family with your kids. Let's talk about presents a little bit
Baba: Absolutely being present. So for different people, it will mean different things of. So it will be practiced differently. What kids when they're young. And I think the executor said, time to love to a child he spelled time. When you so before I used to feel it's about obviously before it was not from no time to some time on two more times now on, I'm even at a level where sometimes I just sit in the playroom with no agenda on that when they pull me into these are full me. And I think, by a large, it's the opposition off the front that being a father is a privilege.
First, we need to be grateful, cause that's what some people are longing for, desiring on the children as much as they can push our buttons. It's a real privilege and it's... Sometimes they, it's one of the if you could call it an accomplishment. It's probably the biggest accomplishment I have so far the privilege of being that haven't said that these children will not be there forever. It's interesting one guy was telling me. Well, he's now ready to have time for the children, but they're all grown they're teenagers and they don't have time for him anymore.
So do you want to really live without a greater called love? I showed up or do you want to make memories? So what does it really mean to be present? I think it's to really show the kids that your important to me, I value you. You are important. And I think for me the way to show them the importance is if they interrupt my meditation or something. Not for me to go out of the study or something about okay, that is in a meeting. Now would you mind if I conducted into meat or something? I'm just making them really feel important.
I think it's important at a very big physical level. It's just that. And does them in right in a bicycle, with your son jumping on the trampoline. Whatever it means. I know we can go out for badly. Lessons are streaming in on all of that now book just sometimes I just run after them. I just make them run after me just to I have some flashbacks of my dad when we used to do pick a boo on and it was years after he died. I first opened up to my wife about it to go.
You know, I just remember that might interest you do this to me and of all the things that was, um experienced that I cherished that is with me, that even though he's gone now I appreciated. So I will really love my children to be able to have memories I love to have memories with the children on. I think it's not just about myself and the children, but also affects the next generation. Because I believe my son is watching me. My eyes watching me on the kind of young man, he will likely be influenced by what I'm showing him now. And the expectation my daughter will have is likely going to be based on what I'm showing to hand also being present. I know have gone on a little bit that I think if I can sell me talk simply, I will say time with the family.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, no, this is so beautiful. and I just want to pull out a few things to you that you know, if they come to you and we're doing something else putting down what you're doing making that eye contact, connecting with them, even if it means like, you know, like even if we aren't able to be fully present for a long time like they come in, you're on a call for work. You can take a second to just stop Look at them, say, convey that you'd like to be with them and they have to wait just a moment while you're finishing up your call like makes them able to wait when they feel that connection when they feel like Hey, you know, my dad really cares about me. They wanted to be spending time with me, and they are going to spend time with me and you build that trust to win. Then you actually follow up on it. Once the call is over, you get off and you actually go do the connecting time.
But I love what you're saying at the time of this recording. We are finishing up this 30 days of play challenge that I do in my community every year on the first 20 days are dedicated only to watching your kids play. So when you say that just sitting down in their playroom and watching them play even if they don't invite you in is still connecting time, it's so important they look up. They see that you're watching that you don't have your phone on you that you are just enjoying their presence. It's a beautiful gift to kids.
Baba: That is so well said. I'm elected, thinking also affects them emotionally. It builds them off emotionally electric things, but also over.
Laura: For sure, it makes them feel seen and heard and valued and important and really at the heart of it. That's what we all want as humans, right? Those were the very basic things that we get out of relationships is to feel seen and heard and valued. Our kids want that our wives on that our husbands one that you know we all want those things. And that's what presence can give to them.
Baba: Absolutely and it costs nothing. Sometimes you just want your presence.
Laura: Actually it costs nothing. So one thing that I do when I'm noticing in my family that, you know, maybe we're kind of a little grumpy with each other, or parents are kind of distracted or you know, that we just haven't had much presence with each other. The very first thing that my husband and I do is make an agreement backed for a set period of time that our phones or devices will all be in one specific drawer in our kitchen, where they go for a set period of time. And that's often the simplest intervention. To bring more presence into our family is to remove that very carefully designed distraction.
Because, of course, our phones and social media are designed to pull us in, you know, to distract us from what's important in life, like that's something that just a practical tip. That's the very first thing we do when we're noticing that kind of we are being pulled in multiple directions is to get devices just out of sight for a little while every day,.
Baba: And you know what's Laura? It works.
Laura: It works, and you know, we do it for the time period between, like when the kids get home from school and before dinner. But then my husband and I also do it mindfully after the kids go into bed for the first half-hour. So after the kids are tucked in, we don't have our phones out because we need that, too. You know, these, all of these relationships are important. Being a present parent is not just about being present with your kids. It's about if your parenting with a partner being present with them too.
Baba: Absolutely, absolutely, and way we wouldn't get into mobile. From what? I think they're a great blessing. They should not be abused acting. That's where that well, they know.
Laura: Yeah. You know, here, in our community, we are all working towards parenting our kids with gentleness and with respect and with humanity, seeing them as the full humans that they are inherently worthy of kind and gentle treatment even as they're growing and learning.
Yeah. Okay, so I have one more question for you. So we've talked about kind of just time, just giving them the gift of your time and your full presence. Is there anything else that parents could be doing to kind of improve the quality of time that they spend? Because I was just reading a new research study that came out that was about that. The time we spend isn't nearly as important as the quality of the time that we spend. And this is particularly in this research study that this was that trend was particularly strong for dads. That dads who had spent maybe even less time but more quality time with their kids have better relationships with their kids, and the kids have fewer behavioral problems. So can you highlight a little bit of what we can do to kind of improve the quality of the time we spend with our family with our kids?
Baba: So we've just touched on it. I think the first thing is to be put down the gadgets because come in in the world. And the other thing is to find what each child loves. Maybe they love language and walk with them in that my daughter with you on that she loves walking on. Sometimes if you see us on the streets, you probably thinks he's walking me, dragging me, I know. Well, as I realized he loved it, where we do that almost only daily basis and he's happy Skin did as he said quality of time is important. So I'll say dropped.
They got what's language of each child on speaking to them in that language on and I think another thing I will say is especially for people that have younger children given ourselves grace to prioritize the children, especially when they're younger. Unknowing that, yes, what will always be there for the next 20, 30 years, depending on people's it? For someone that just had a baby, which was a mistake, I made thinking I could do everything the way I used to do them have any that maybe was not sleeping was puts him.
Certainly not setting myself up for success, basically. So give yourself grace for the stage. If the babies they're struggling with, like maybe you need to sleep during the day, maybe you need to make some adjustments when they're told last. The needs become different, just appreciating the fact that you any different stage of life and it'll change and I'm about yet in another two years because you will wake up when they're teenagers and you might have all the money. I'm ready for them, but the financial be ready for you.
Laura: Oh, that was just beautifully put. And you know, here in our community, we love to just heaping doses of grace and compassion on parents. And sorry. I love how you delivered that with so much grace, but a very important reminder. I'm not this, you know, the days may be along with the years or short.
Baba: Yes, that is a good one.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Baba, I'm so glad that we connected. I'm so glad that you were willing to come and share the gift in the wisdom that you've learned in your own experience with us. It was just such a pleasure to have you with me today.
Baba: very much. It's been a pleasure coming on here, and I applaud what you're doing in your community as well. So thank you. On behalf of the Dad’s.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
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All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this.