Episode 62: Dad's Mental Health Matters Too! with Eli Weinstein (Feature on Fathers Series No. 1)
/So we just ended our month-long series for Motherhood and now, I want to give you another series that will focus on fatherhood & feature some amazing dads! The parenting world is filled with the voices and perspectives of mothers and while I love having space where our voices are prioritized, I also think it can contribute to the idea of the mom being the "default" parent or the one who is responsible for doing the research and learning associated with parenting. But what the research actually shows is that dads play a unique and important role in kids' lives and that kids in families with both a mom and a dad do BETTER when their dad is actively involved in the day-to-day tasks of parenting.
And then of course there is the important point that not all families have a person who identifies as a mom in them, and those families are often left completely out of the discussion in parenting circles. So for the month of June, the month when we celebrate both Father's Day and Pride in the US, we are going to hear from the dads! We will be focusing on Dads, their mental health, what we need to know about them, and how to support them.
And for the first episode, I'm bringing in a friend and colleague, Eli Weinstein. He is a dad, a coach, and the host of The Dude Therapist Podcast which aims to give men and women alike a safe space for them to grow. He will help us learn and be aware that Dads' mental health is also important.
Here's an overview of what we talked about:
Mental health and parenting
Faulty systems and lack of support for parents
Learning vs Intuition when it comes to parenting
Finding yourself in parenting
Follow him on Instagram @eliweinstein_lcsw and visit his website www.elivation.org. To learn more about what he does and his services, check out linktr.ee/elivation.
Don't forget to tune in to his podcast. There's a lot of good information in there about mental health and parenting.
TRANSCRIPT
Parenting is often lived in the extremes. It's either great joy or chaotic, overwhelmed. In one moment, you're nailing it and the next you're losing your cool. I want to help you find your way to the messy middle, to a place of balance. You see balance is a verb, not a state of being. It is a thing you do. Not a thing you are. It is an action, a process, a series of micro corrections that you make each and every day to keep yourself feeling centered. We are never truly balanced. We are engaged in the process of balancing.
Hello, I'm Dr. Laura Froyen and this is The Balanced Parent Podcast where overwhelmed, stressed out and disconnected parents go to find tools, mindset shifts and practices to help them stop yelling at the people they love and start connecting on a deeper level. All delivered with heaping doses of grace and compassion. Join me in conversations that will help you get clear on your goals and values and start showing up in your parenting, your relationships, your life with openhearted authenticity and balance. Let's go!
Laura: Hello everybody, this is Dr. Laura Froyen and we are back with another episode of the Balanced Parent Podcast and today I have a guest, a dad therapist, and the host of the dude therapist podcast, Eli Weinstein, it's so nice to have you here with me, thank you for being here.
Eli: Thank you for having me. You know it's not very often you find great podcast about parenting and as a parent, always looking for good things to listen to and to be part of. So I'm really excited.
Laura: Yeah, okay, so tell my listeners a little bit more about yourself, like who you are and what you do.
Eli: Sure I'm a therapist out in New York, I work in a clinic right now in Queens, doing everything teletherapy because of corona. So really my offices, wherever I am and I'm a father of a one and a half-year-old, little adorable cutie. Her name is Ricky, married to my wife for a little over five years and just taking it day by day, you know, taking it day by day.
Laura: Yeah, so you're in this transition phase, you know, so the statistics about marriages and that first year of like as you've transitioned to parenthood are pretty bleak. I don't know if all of our listeners know this, but marital satisfaction plummets in the first year after you have a baby in general averages and doesn't start to recover until that baby is three. And so you're in the midst of that, I'm like on the other side with my older kids, how is it going with the little one?
Eli: I would say that we're a very strong, you know, we have great communication, were very strong in our bond and why we're married and we were married for definitely it's been a rough year, you know, with more stressed, on edge, frustrated and snippy. I'm speaking for myself, more snippy and snappy at little things and getting frustrated a lot easier. But that comes with the territory of being a parent and literally throwing a human being to take care of into the mix of the life that you thought you already got used too of being married. So it's been a bumpy ride, but not in a bad sense, just about the natural way it should go and we really enjoy it. We're really enjoying parenting.
Laura: Yeah, that's awesome. I think it's so important for everybody to know that when we transition into parenthood, there's three identities that are shifting their right. There is the mom or the one parent's identity, there's the other parent's identity and then there's the relationships’ identity. It's also shifting and needs to go through transition. Is there anything that you have done that's made that easier for you and for your wife?
Eli: Definitely trying to before we had a kid, it was more a lot easier just to have a date night or intimacy, not just in the bedroom, but outside of the bedroom of just connecting and spending time with each other. And now it has to be like a very active thought process or very active data processing, very intentional. So when we do have a moment or something that we would enjoy, we make it a moment to realize this is our time and we're going to take advantage of it whether, you know, I bought her for her birthday, it's called the Adventure challenge book. It's some new Instagrammable book that's like a scratch-off date night that you don't know what's going to happen until you scratch off and like those little things. So like if we know we have babysitting and we know we can do without worrying about our baby, well do something from there or we'll watch our favorite movie or a favorite tv show or go out to dinner or whatever it is now with Corona and wherever you live, trying to do our best to have moments of each other with each other just with each other and it's been a challenge but we made it work, we made it work and also sometimes it's just not forcing it and just relaxing because we're so tired you know,
Laura: giving yourself a little bit of grace and permission right?
Eli: 100% you know.
Laura: Yeah, and I don't know about you, but for me, my husband and I realized early on, so we became parents while we were in grad school, he was getting his Ph.D. in accounting. He's attacks nerd and I was getting my Ph.D. Yeah, it totally is. Oh, it's so bad. Anyway. I mean he's wonderful. I love him, but totally nerdy when we were dating, he would like call me at night and he would be like eating nachos and reading the tax code. He's such a nerd anyway.
But when we were in grad school and it was just so easy to go through the motions of being partners, we were so, you know, we were both writing our dissertations, you know, I had practical because I was in a clinical program, you know, we had a baby, it was so easy to just fall into the day to day. And so we really realized that when we started noticing the snippets, the kind of a latte shortened window of tolerance for each other. That's when we really needed to put our phones away, put our computers away. Like we would go tech-free for the first hour after our kid was in bed and that really helped us and we still do that to this day.
Eli: I think that's a very amazing goal. You know, I think it's a wonderful thing to do. I also think that once we finally got a schedule for our daughter, but also helped whether it was, I know Corona, for my family has moved us around between places were based in Queens, my wife from L.A, we went to L. A. For four months to be with her family, to get away from new york and the craziness of corona and being the fun in the sun and now we're back in new york and you know, the time change and all these things are just getting into a habit and being with each other. We worked around the schedule, but it's very important to make that time because the snippets is going to happen, right your window. I like that the window of tolerance of dealing with each other shorter and you want to enjoy yourself and be with each other and have a good time and not be frustrated and resenting each other all the time just because there's a beautiful baby in your life.
Also, I would say, just to throw something else in there, My wife and I went through infertility. So our child, whether good or bad, Is like a huge blessing in our life that we truly don't take for granted and are 100% bought in with the good times and the hard times because we have had to work so hard to have the child. So that gives us a different perspective that we might not have had before if it came naturally or a little easier than the dead.
Laura: Yeah. So your parenthood was hard-won. I mean, that can bring a whole set of unique layers to it too. Yeah, 100%. Well, one thing I love hearing about on your podcast is when you talk about mental health and I think that we don't talk about mental health for dads as much. I was just talking with another colleague of mine and she had read a study that opened her eyes to the rates of postpartum depression and dads. And this is something that I included in my dissertation because my dissertation was on how parent depression influences parenting practices. Yeah, it's super nerdy but good, you know?
Eli: But I'm a therapist nerd, you know?
Laura: Yeah. And so, but I think that we don't think about mainstream folks. I don't think no, that dads can experience postpartum depression to can you talk with us a little bit about that?
Eli: I love it too because I know when my wife was pregnant and we were getting ready to go back and all those things and the checklists and mentally getting prepared when we were leaving the hospital, whatever class they gave us at the hospital to let us know we were okay. Even the class was focused on the mom here signs of postpartum depression for the mom and here's and I knew that as a therapist, but it's never bad to have a refresher course and just to keep me aware because my mind was so frazzled and I barely had sleep for the last couple of days just having a baby.
So my focus was always on her, always on her, always on her and the baby. I lost track of myself in that and actually had my first panic attack about a month into my baby's life. I thought I was dying. You know, it also gave me a great insight into my clients who have panic attacks and when they told me that the feelings and symptoms, and I'm like, yeah, sure I know this from the books and now I can say, like, yeah, I understand. Not that I would never say I understand, but I get the perspective of what they're saying. And then the focus is on me. My wife is a warrior. I mean, she's wonder woman, she's amazing, she's strong, and she's great. And I love her to pieces. She was totally fine afterwards in the confines of having a baby, right?
And there's always changes in hormone levels. And she had a C section an emergency section and all the stuff and it was a lot of stress regarding her mental health. She was bought in, she was great. The only show she had was the breastfeeding and how frustrating it was. Other than that I was the one who had most of the mental health issues when it came to the parenting side. And as a therapist, I looked at myself and I said come on what the heck? Like you're the therapist get it together or this is not supposed to happen to you. It happens to the woman, not like what's wrong with you? And it's very true that there is a huge case of postpartum mental health issues with men and dads out there and when I started posting about it and talking about it I was like, oh I went through the same thing. Oh my gosh, I didn't know you did that, wow, it's so interesting. I had the same feeling, you know, it was just so interesting to see how common it is. But let's talk about or focused on the mainstream thought process of mental health with postpartum,
Laura: You know, and I mean it's not to say that women are so beautifully supported as they leave and enter into motherhood. They're not like postpartum depression and postpartum para natal mood disorders more broadly are still very poorly understood and women, oh my gosh, we need so much advocacy, but dad's due too, you know, there's or whoever the nonbirthing parent is, you know what?
Eli: It's interesting. Yeah.
Laura: I think parents’ mental health in general needs more attention and more support. It's so important. It impacts so much and in these incredibly formative years we there's so much research on how important those first three years of life are, You know, and how important insurance are. No right, no pressure. Oh sorry.
Eli: It's true that no, no, I love it. I love the pressure. You know, it's so true that there's not enough focus on that mental health piece which is not just for the parents, but also the impact that could have on the child or children and how that plays in their life. And also what I would say is that I think it's very interesting that the focuses a lot about the women and you're right, I don't think that women get as much support.
Even the terminology we use for time off is like a disability and all the ways we look at it as a problem or like an issue or a handicap that you gave birth to life to continue the generations of the world. It's a totally different conversation for a totally different time. But I think mental health and parents should be a huge focus but is not and is forgotten or push aside two different things and it's very hard to figure out.
And there's so many complex layers going into it as well biologically your space, your identity, who you are, where things are going, your life, your routine, your behaviors or habits are just thrown up in the air and you have this little baby relying on you and you need to be okay as well. And that's a very hard thing.
Laura: It is, it's hard. And I also think that there's one piece coming to realize like, oh gosh, I'm not okay and then taking that next step to find figuring out. Okay. So who do I go to and I know you have a recent podcast episode kind of on that right? Therapy 101 or something like that. Yeah. So I think folks should check out the episode. I'll link to it in the show notes here on that. But I also have a video that kind of breaks down all of the letters after people's names so that you understand who you're going for and who to look for and who does
Eli: The alphabet’s crazy man. Every, every letter in the alphabet used in most people, You know, it's, I was just talking to someone jewelry rose and she is an LmFT and I didn't get a chance to ask her on the podcast but like talking about what your letters after your name mean any different than an L M H C or an L C S W R A P H D. Um, and how that can change someone's choice in deciding if you're the best fit for them.
I know for me, the moment where I actually needed to ask for help was when I was up half the night, but literally sitting on the floor in the living room almost pulling my hair out in anxiety and not knowing why and realizing and looking in the mirror going, something's not okay. And I think I had a better perspective on it because I'm a therapist and for the regular person in the world who might not be trained or might not know or have knowledge of what where and how can be very scary. And it was already scary for me can be very scary about, well I don't know where to go next. And sometimes it's very hard for the partner as well to see that because they're so overwhelmed with their own stuff that they might not be able to help or have compassion fatigue already helping their child to be able to help another human being is just that much more of a challenge. But definitely get help if you need 100% over.
Laura: Absolutely. I mean, if anything else, you probably have your kid's pediatrician on like that, you can message through your doctor like the, I don't know the pediatrician office app. But if you can send a message there, they will send you a list of referrals
Eli: Actually, I don't know what it was when your kids were younger. But when we were starting off the first few, you know, weeks or so of the doctor's visits, they made me do a like a, like a parent's PHQ 9 depression scale kind of thing. And when I scored, I didn't even realized what, what it was because it wasn't framed in the same way as a regular PHQ nine. It was like hidden. And when the doctor looked at it and said, is everyone okay? And we said, yeah, the baby is great. She's growing, she's beautiful. She's, you know, she's cute. There's no, no. Are you guys okay? Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm doing good actually. My husband's not. And he then turned to me and said, what can I do to help?
Yeah. And that point on, I fell in love with his pediatrician. He's very into and he keeps checking in on me like I'm doing great now. But the first month and then what really changed for me as a father was paternity leave. That was a life-changer. If you can, I highly suggest that one for the dads out there to connect with their children and two for the moms to get a break and for the moms to help give trust and confidence in their husband or other partner to feel like they can do it because I know and my wife even feels this way now even though I'm confident and I'm very good at what I do as a parent and I love my daughter and I would do anything for her. She's a default mommy, mommy, this that oh mommy, mommy, everything's mommy and it's adorable and cute. I'm not jealous whatsoever, even though secretly I am love the hugs and kisses for myself.
But that being said, sometimes parents pushed the other parent away, not on purpose just because they become the default and the other person kind of sits there with their hands twiddling their thumbs, not knowing how to be confident and be a parent as well. So for me to turn to leave was a huge eye-opener because I had no other option. My wife is at work, so I had to figure it out and it changed everything for me and from that point on it clicked and I've never looked back and I've spoken to other parents, dads, moms, any combination of parenting that to me, I think it's a huge turning point for a lot of people to build their confidence that they can do it and their baby is going to be okay and it's going to be a wonderful bond.
Laura: Yeah and that mutual confidence to I think, you know.
Eli: I can trust you.
Laura: Yeah, I can trust you, and then you're able to you know, project more confidence and it just builds from there. I so agree, you know, I leave policies in this country are awful in general, but my dear cousin who is practically like a sister to me, has a new baby at home and her husband's company has no paternity leave, None. So he's working from home for two weeks. But other than that he'll be back and it's, we do such a disservice to families when we don't get aren't able to take a leave. But then there's also like for many men who I've spoken to and in the academic circles that I run in, men are discouraged from taking it two. They think, I mean your job, job, you should be doing that right.
And if more men did take it, it would even the playing field. So like an academic couples where both couples are on the tenure track it takes and their heterosexual. It takes women seven years longer on average to get tenure because they have clock restarts, they take time off. And I mean it just perpetuates the differences were getting into the patriarchy and that's a whole other topic.
Eli: I actually important grad school. I did a research study on paternity leave and maternity leave in other countries and the Netherlands. I would move to the Netherlands just for that. Yeah. The amount they give like a year to two years off for parents.
Laura: Per parents.
Eli: I definitely for the mom, definitely for the mom, I'm not sure about the father. I don't think the father was actually spoken about in the research studies done in other countries, definitely. It was the focus was the mother, which is a whole nother thing, whatever. And that the mom got a year off with solidified job safety and full pay And a nanny for the 1st 3-4 months. It's like this crazy. But that's a socialist country or other countries of that nature. That's what you get even in London. That happens in the UK. You get a nanny like a baby nurse for a little bit. So it's interested in how we are considered the most free and wonderful country. But something so simple as having a kid can be so interesting. I mean that's what not to get into politics right here. And we're getting real and raw.
Laura: parenting is political. It's inherently political. You know? And I mean this pandemic has highlighted that so much in our country, the way that we rely on systems that are faulty and that always fall back. I mean there's a reason why hundreds of thousands of women left the workforce in the fall.
Eli: I mean colleagues of mine who left because of parenting.
Laura: because they had to do childcare, the kids are going to school and it would mean disproportionately impacted women too. So I mean we can get all fired up about this. Okay, so one last question that I wanted to ask you. So this is something that I hear from dads that I work with all the time and from my own husband. They tell me that they don't want to learn about parenting, that they want to be able to trust their instincts, they want to just be instinctual. And I wanted to kind of get your take on that as a professional and as a dad, like, like tell me, what do you think about that? What's up with that?
Eli: I'm smiling ear to ear. I love that question. My wife and I have had multiple conversation about this and for me it depends on the topic. My wife is a dietitian, so she is trained in eating and how to eat well and what to eat when you should eat it and how much you need to eat and what foods you should eat. And she's done research on this and she has a degree and works this every day just like I work as a therapist.
And I, when it came to feeding our child, was instinctual like, oh, they should eat this and that because that's what my brother did and that's what my parents didn't. “Oh yeah. Why you this? Why it that” I was like, I want to do baby-led weaning and I said, what is this? And she taught me about it And I was so pushed back on it, you can ask her, she'll vouchers 100%. She pushed back and I pushed back and said, this is ridiculous, I have to do this. She's going to waste all this food and we should just feed her the jars and all the things. My baby has such an eclectic palette. She eats everything and anything that we eat, she eats. If you haven't had a chance to look into it, it's called Baby Led Weaning the Baby leads and it's a very big thing in Europe and it's only getting steam in America now,
Laura: both my kids were baby leads.
Eli: It's amazing. I push back because I felt into this intuitive thing. But as an avid reader and someone that I loved on fiction and it's my go-to read, I read everything nonfiction. I love baby books and parenting books.
Laura: You were willing to read those books.
Eli: because that to me is for my knowledge as a therapist and I'm a dad. So for me in my thought process of what I love to do in a passion of mine, I thought this is great. One another excuse to buy more books to reading and knowledge and connections and thought processes and research and all these things that are great and opened my eyes to a lot of things that I thought to be intuitive that we're not or vice versa, whether it's how to speak to your kids, how to deal with tantrums, all those things that I didn't really know or wasn't involved in because I wasn't apparent yet.
So I didn't even read those books. Why would I look into that if I wasn't a parent? But now as a parent, I'm looking to those books, it helps me with my clients who are parents who are dealing with teenagers who are doing it just gives me a perspective. So it was kind of selfish why I read the books, but also because I want my child to grow up healthy and well, whatever that means for her and all my children to be great to their abilities in their own uniqueness and beauty. But I also want to help them as much as best as I can as a parent. I go back and forth about the intuitive thing because I think women as a whole love to look into and research are so driven by knowledge to help their child they're all in because it's like, I think it's an innate beauty of the connection between the mother and the main parent or the default parent to the child to look into and research, whether it's strollers, car seats, what food to eat, when to do, sleeping routines, all these things and the guy just sits there and goes, you got this. It's not, I didn't feel involved because my wife is just, that's her personality and I love her for and she went for it. And I took the reins for the mental health side and development side of our child. I looked at it from that perspective and knew that stuff and we came together as a team.
But it doesn't mean we didn't get upset at each other or frustrated each other, disagreeing on points about how to parent and went to feed her child and habits and sleep patterns and all those things. We got into it just like every other parent. But in the end, the one lesson that I take away from all of it is trusting my wife and her, trusting me that when I say I've looked into something or I've done my research or I would like to do something as a parent to embrace it and try it out. As long as not hurting our child. I'm not suggesting something with malicious intent, which I hope no parent does, but you never know that it's for the best and I'm not just doing it for fun. I'm doing it because I believe it's best for our child and that's the conclusion we came to, to trust each other's institutes and research and thought process and embrace it and love it and back each other up on it.
Laura: So what though I get what you're saying and I think you're speaking to something called accepting influence, which in the couple's therapy world we know is one of the hallmarks of a successful relationship that couples who accept influence from each other have more longevity.
But the like when there is resistance to learning to digging into questioning because oftentimes of parents that I work with, their parenting against the grain, they are parenting differently than how they were raised. They are parenting in almost like a revolutionary way, you know, and it's hard, it's not easy and it's not easy when you're one partner and you feel like you're kind of pulling your other partner along and I think women in general and we're making generalities and kind of making assumptions about what a family is made out of.
And I know I have a lot of nonhetero couples who listen to my podcast, but I do think that women, lots of the women that I work with feel plagued by indecision, they don't feel confident, they don't feel like they can trust their intuition. And I think that it has a lot to do with the way that women are socialist. I think we're socialist, not trust our intuition and I think that oftentimes men are socialized to be instinctual to trust their gut, go with your gut, you know, and I think that that's one of the differences that really like, there's a piece of male privilege in wanting to just go with your instinct that is a little goes unexamined in the parenting world. You know.
Eli: I love that. And I think it's so true and my wife would love that. I say this because she says sometimes, sometimes I say things with full confidence just because I think it might be true without knowing anything with like, and I'm a confident guy and I say it with full fervor and I'm like, yeah, let's do this. And she's like, why? And I'm like, because why? I'm like, I don't know, it feels right because I say it was so much excitement, energy doesn't mean it's right. And I think that my wife does not do that as much. She looks into it first before she has the confidence to say “Eli, let's try this.” And I go, hey, you know, I saw this commercial, I saw some Instagram thing, I said, let's just go for it. Let's do it. And I don't look into it fully or know why it would be good. I don't do this very often when I do have a chance to do it, I do it with full excitement and intuition and so,
Laura: and then there's a balance there. right then exactly partner who balances if you're out and as long as you are agreeing to accept influence from each other.
Eli: Yeah, I think it's just about trying. One of the biggest things that I've learned from my parents and my in-laws and other parents that I've seen, my brother and my cousins and everyone that has a kid around me was teamwork and this is a lot easier said than done by no means is parenting ever going to be easy no matter how many books you read or how many classes you take or how many therapists you see, parenting is hard because the Children are complex and they're beautiful and magical in their own way and each child could be different. So the things that work for the first child might not work for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, you know, and really throw off your game.
But the idea to be together that you trust each other and have each other's back through that process and follow each other's leads when they take that lead to embrace that and push them forward and help them and be confident with them and let them do it I think is important and totally, totally impactful for your mental health as a parent and the kids lives as they go forward.
Laura: Yeah, I so agree. I mean that's what they say, right? Teamwork makes the dream work.
Eli: And sometimes the dream is hard to get to, but you get there, you know?
Laura: Yeah, absolutely. I think that that is so important. I think you're so right, Okay, so one last question for you, Ellie. So if you had to pick one parenting book, Alright, so because I usually only get one recommendation on what a parent is actually going to pick up and read. What would be the one that you would recommend All the dads listening pick up and read.
Eli: for the one author because he has multiple books. But I'll say the main book is The Whole Brainchild by Dr. Siegel. I think it's Daniel J. Siegel and combined with Tina Bryson and I truly believe that their series is just so relatable and so easy to read and as a parent, it totally speaks to me with experiences. They are parents, they had so much experience of being therapists for parents and children. I didn't have to think it wasn't dense, it wasn't sterile, it was just very personable and relatable and the tips were interesting and it kind of made me think about things that I might have taken for granted or didn't as a parent and why things happen when they happen to kind of understand just where your kids heads are at, at what stage in life.
So you don't take it so personally as a parent or don't take it so seriously as a parent and know that your child is just being a child or being themselves and to love and embrace that and go along with it and work with them. And I think their main tagline is to connect and redirect when you see those parents get on like the level of the child and look at them in the eyes and be with them and talk to them. It's not silly, it's not ridiculous. It's not like new parenting or modern parents is just being there with your Children to understand where they're coming from and treat them like they should be treated, which is a child with a brain growing and developing and that truly to me was one of the better books I've read and I'm still bought a few of them and now I'm on to my next one, the brainstorm, which is for teenagers.
Laura: Yeah, I love the whole brainchild too, I think it's a wonderful book if you're looking for a deeper dive from Dan Siegel parenting from the Inside out is also lovely, but that's really like the deep stuff, you know when you start confronting your triggers and your trauma and all the good healing, you've got to do so.
Eli: 100% all the good healing.
Laura: Yeah. The book that I recommend most of the time for parents where I know I get one book is how to talk. So kids will listen series wherever they yeah,
Eli: that is my next book on my list of my next bet.
Laura: How to talk. So little kids will listen. I don't know about you but I know that for me, I took post-it notes and put like flags on all the little places because you don't.
Eli: if you ask anyone who knows me. I, I literally have a collection of post-it notes every couple of weeks I order from amazon and I get more and more and every book I read every nonfiction which is usually what I read is posted it up with thoughts and ideas. I don't know what each one is, but I know that where the book is that I need to look and I can just rifle through the things. I love doing that.
Laura: Me too. It's such a helpful way. And I think especially with how to talk to little kids will listen. Every chapter has a one-page summary and cartoons. So like graphic novel style. Like you know, you don't have to read the whole thing because good do it. All right. Eli. Thank you so much for being here with me. Why don't you tell people where they can find you on Instagram?
Eli: Sure. My Instagram handles elevation underscore therapist or at the dude therapist. Reach out to me anytime you want with any questions and I can try to help you as best as possible. And I hope you give it a listen.
Laura: Okay. All right, thank you everybody for being here with us and thank you for coming and chatting with us today.
Eli: Thank you for having me. And it's been really great.
Okay, so thanks for listening today. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and if it was helpful, leave me a review that really helps others find the podcast and join us in this really important work of creating a parenthood that we don't have to escape from and creating a childhood for our kids that they don't have to recover from.
And if you're listening, grab a screenshot and tag me on Instagram so that I can give you a shout out um, and definitely go follow me on Instagram. I'm @laurafroyenphd. That's where you can get behind the scenes. Look at what balanced, conscious parenting looks like in action with my family, and plus I share a lot of other, really great resources there too.
All right. That's it for me today. I hope that you keep taking really good care of your kids and your family and each other and most importantly of yourself. And just to remember, balance is a verb and you're already doing it. You've got this.